98 replies to this topic

[Lawrence]

"What Happened to All the Nice Guys?"

I see this question posted with some regularity in the personals section, so I thought I'd take a minute to explain things to the ladies out there that haven't figured it out.

What happened to all the nice guys?

The answer is simple: you did.

See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He'd tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn't feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were ###### treated you.

At the time, you probably joked with your girlfriends about how he was a little puppy dog, always following you around, trying to do things to get you to pay attention to him. They probably teased you because they thought he had a crush on you. Given that his behavior was, admittedly, a little pathetic, you vehemently denied having any romantic feelings for him, and buttressed your position by claiming that you were "just friends." Besides, he totally wasn't your type. I mean, he was a little too short, or too bald, or too fat, or too poor, or didn't know how to dress himself, or basically be or do any of the things that your tall, good-looking, fit, rich, stylish boyfriend at the time pulled off with such ease.

Eventually, your Platonic buddy drifted away, as your relationship with the boyfriend got more serious and spending time with this other guy was, admittedly, a little weird, if you weren't dating him. More time passed, and the boyfriend eventually cheated on you, or became boring, or you realized that the things that attracted you to him weren't the kinds of things that make for a good, long-term relationship. So, now, you're single again, and after having tried the bar scene for several months having only encountered players and douche bags, you wonder, "What happened to all the nice guys?"

Well, once again, you did.

You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy. You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion. You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive "just-a-" friend. Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life. He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren't really attracted to guys who hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you're upset; or hold you when you cry. He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he'd have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of an asshole than he ever wanted to be.

Fact is, now, he's probably getting laid, and in a way, your ultimate rejection of him is to thank for that. And I'm sorry that it took the complete absence of "nice guys" in your life for you to realize that you missed them and wanted them. Most women will only have a handful of nice guys stumble into their lives, if that.

So, if you're looking for a nice guy, here's what you do:

1.) Build a time machine.
2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your ass.
3.) Take a look at what's right in front of you and grab ahold of it.

I suppose the other possibility is that you STILL don't really want a nice guy, but you feel the social pressure to at least appear to have matured beyond your infantile taste in men. In which case, you might be in luck, because the nice guy you claim to want has, in reality, shed his nice guy mantle and is out there looking to unleash his cynicism and resentment onto someone just like you.

If you were five years younger.

So, please: either stop misrepresenting what you want, or own up to the fact that you've ######ed yourself over. You're getting older, after all. It's time to excise the bullshit and deal with reality. You didn't want a nice guy then, and he certainly doesn't ###### want you, now.

Sincerely,

A Recovering Nice Guy





PS: i just found this online, i'm not sure who wrote it but he's pretty much correct :3

[Maury Tuhis]

Lol spot on.

[chr0nik©]

nice guys never win

[potentatewags]

lol, I definitely agree 100%. It irks me when I hear women say that only gay guys are nice. It isn't that at all. Women say they want a nice, humorous guy and that looks don't matter, yet they always go for the ass. They just so off-offhandedly reject the actual nice guys they don't realize it. And besides, if the gay guys were straight, the same would happen to them as with straight nice guys.

"To thine own self be true." Admit you go for the asses and move on. Saying you want a nice guy only leads the nice guys on.

[Glasseyelashes]

after reading that, i can say, it's pretty true. i had that "best guy friend" mentioned in the letter, and we ended up dating for a while. turns out, most of the nice guy image he put on, was shed the instant we started dating. what he eventually turned out to be was an asshole racist who used me, cheated on me, and if i didn't give him what he wanted, he dumped me to get with the next girl... don't get me started on the other losers i've dated. so yeah, my idea of a "nice guy" is pretty much tarnished, and i've shunned men all together now.

[faraithi sayounara~*waves*]

PS: i just found this online, i'm not sure who wrote it but he's pretty much correct :3

It was posted over 2 years ago on craigslist, but I don't know if that's where it was first posted:

best of craigslist: "What Happened to All the Nice Guys?"
http://www.craigslis.../483318927.html

...a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He'd tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn't feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed...

...

You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy. You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion.

...

He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren't really attracted to guys who hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you're upset; or hold you when you cry.

Lol spot on.

I agree too!
But sometimes, I wonder if the guy was simply too foolish in the first place for giving his heart to such a girl!
As a 21yo George Michael used to sing in Wham's "Last Christmas" in 1984:

(Happy Christmas!)

Last Christmas, I gave you my heart;
But the very next day, you gave it away.
This year, to save me from tears,
I'll give it to someone special...

Last Christmas, I gave you my heart;
But the very next day, you gave it away.
(You gave it away)
This year, to save me from tears,
I'll give it to someone special...
(Special)

Once bitten and twice shy;
I keep my distance, but you still catch my eye.
Tell me baby, do you recognise me?
Well, it's been a year, it doesn't surprise me.

(Happy Christmas!)
I wrapped it up and sent it,
With a note saying "I Love You", I meant it.
Now I know what a fool I've been,
But if you kissed me now, I know you'd fool me again.

Last Christmas, I gave you my heart;
But the very next day, you gave it away.
(You gave it away)
This year, to save me from tears,
I'll give it to someone special...
(Special)

Last Christmas, I gave you my heart;
But the very next day, you gave it away.
This year, to save me from tears,
I'll give it to someone special...
(Special)

Oh... Oh my Baby...
Crowded room, friends with tired eyes;
I'm hiding from you and your soul of ice.
My God, I thought you were someone to rely on;
Me? I guess I was a shoulder to cry on.

A face on a lover with a fire in his heart;
A man undercover but you tore me apart.
Ooh hoo, now I've found a real love,
you'll never fool me again.

Last Christmas, I gave you my heart;
But the very next day, you gave it away.
(You gave it away)
This year, to save me from tears,
I'll give it to someone special...
(Special)

Last Christmas, I gave you my heart;
But the very next day, you gave it away.
(You gave it away)
This year, to save me from tears,
I'll give it to someone special...
(Special)

A face on a lover with a fire in his heart;
(Gave you my heart)
A man undercover but you tore me apart.
Maybe next year, I'll give it to someone,
I'll give it to someone special...
(Special)

Someone
Someone
I'll give it to someone,
I'll give it to someone special...

Who'll give me something in return!
(I'll give it to someone)
Hold my heart and watch it burn!
(I'll give it to someone)
(I'll give it to someone)
(I'll give it to someone special)

I thought you were here to stay!
How can you love me for a day?
I thought you were someone SPECIAL!!!

Gave you my heart
(I'll give it to someone)
(I'll give it to someone)

Last Christmas, I gave you my heart
you gave it away
(I'll give it to someone)
(I'll give it to someone)

[La'aKea]

Gosh! Such inanity! Really pathetic.

All of this could basically be turned from a woman's point of view addressing a guy. And it would be 20,000 times more true since 90% of the time guys (15 to 30 at any rate, it's the only age span I've had experience with) are only interested in girls' appearance (basically if you're not Vogue material, you can go drown yourself) and getting laid rather than a healthy stable relationship in which you do things for the other and receive in return, a relationship based on feelings and not just some snobbish "I want to be with this person because they look cool/hot/fashionable" nonsense.

Urgh! I can't believe someone had the balls to write this, such generalizations! Not just cause he stumbled upon a bad girl who broke his heart, should he write such a piece, and you Lawrence620 should have known better than just copy-pasting it here. This story just sounds like the particular girl of this story was bad, it's not a reason to make generalizations. I don't recognize myself AT ALL in this story and I even experienced the opposite many times (read: I was the nice girl, the "friend", and didn't get noticed because the guys were only interested in easy-to-have-sex-with, not too smart, physically godlike girls).

And potentatewags, uhm, lmao much? It's totally the GUYS who go for the ass, in which world have you been living? And if the girls around you are indeed like that (but I doubt any part of the world would have a concentration of girls like that and nothing else) then you should change acquaintances. Maybe the right girl is right next to you, but you consider her only a friend... Ever thought of that? Guh...


Gosh guys, just get a grip! If the girl who didn't want you was a nice girl, then you probably have your responsibility in why she didn't want you. You say you're the nice type who "hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you're upset; or hold you when you cry" (which are all the things I actually look for in a person) but have you actually done it? Yeah... that's what I thought.
And if the girl was a b**ch, then move over! She was bad anyway!
Stop whining, live your life for yourself, don't let others or girls affect you and dictate who you should be. If you were too stupid to change and become an ass, it's your responsibility, cry over it.
You obviously haven't been around the right girls, if you think it's girls who ruin the "nice guy" thing. Or you were too blind to realize there was a good girl around.

I don't see why guys should come crying over this, when women could do the same (and be more right, imo). Analyze yourself, try to see what the real problem is, before whining like this. Maybe that girl was bad, maybe a lot of girls are bad, but how many bad guys? Plenty too. And what if you were in the position of the hot, rich, fit, stylish boyfriend you described? (cause this letter sounds like the guy has a lot of resentment against that other type of guy). I doubt you would have pushed the girl away saying "oh no, I don't want sex, I want a real relationship with you, let's take things slowly". Also: why would hot, fit, rich, stylish guys necessarily be asses? So there can't be a hot and nice guy? Once you change to become physically more appreciable, you turn bad? What kind of generalization is this? Does it mean that because a person is hot, they behave like an ass/b**ch? Does it mean they only want random sex all the time with many ppl, don't care about personality, will cheat on you or get tired of you? What is this? First of all it's not true, and besides, it's basically saying that just cause someone is hot, they're allowed to be b**ches.
-> This talk is just because you're frustrated over your appearance or situation and are trying to blame it on girls. If you're not pleased with yourself, change for the better. If that girl is a b**ch, find another.


Edit: I understand it can be annoying for a guy to hear "what happened to all the nice guys?" when you've been in such a situation, but that's a particular case, cannot be blamed on the whole gender. Besides, if a girl says this when you're around, you can try saying "Hey, I'm here" and see how she'll react. Maybe she's waiting for you to say that, what do you know? And if not, then there has to be sthg about you that she doesn't like or she's just not interested, and you cannot blame her for this: we can't impose love on ppl, just like we don't decide who we fall for. Girls may seem complicated to guys, but most of the time they have a precise idea of what they're looking for in a person, and if you don't fit, you just don't fit. You will fit to another, most probably. Keep looking.

[faraithi sayounara~*waves*]

And if the girl was a b**ch, then move over! She was bad anyway!

I totally agree!

I was the nice girl, the "friend", and didn't get noticed because the guys were only interested in easy-to-have-sex-with, not too smart, physically godlike girls

You're making me notice you now!

[La'aKea]

But sometimes, I wonder if the guy was simply too foolish in the first place for giving his heart to such a girl!

Exactly! This particular girl was bad. It's better to get over it rather than blaming the whole female gender.

[(AZN)animedude]

o/ here i am o/
in case you were wondering where the nice guys went

[faraithi sayounara~*waves*]

^ @(AZN)animedude: Yes, I was wondering where all the nice guys (and girls) went, because the world seems to have a shortage of such nice people!

[La'aKea]

^
^ I can only take your word on that but if you indeed are, then find a good girl and show her how you are: she can only appreciate it.
Unlike chr0nik©, I think that nice guys win, in the end. Maybe it will look as if you're struggling to find love, at first, but love will find its way to you, there is no way a good person would get denied all their life, someone has to notice their awesomeness at some point. While the bad ppl, they will end up alone (or in a joke relationship/marriage).

My saying is: don't stick to ppl who are not good for you.

[faraithi sayounara~*waves*]

^
^ I can only take your word on that...

If you were replying to (AZN)animedude, then as far as I'm concerned, I think he's a nice guy!

...but if you indeed are, then find a good girl and show her how you are: she can only appreciate it.

But I wonder how/where he/I can find "a good girl" in real life!

At the moment, the only "good/nice girl" that I'm talking to now seems to be you!
(And likewise, I hope I can take your word on that too! )

[La'aKea]

If you were replying to (AZN)animedude, then as far as I'm concerned, I think he's a nice guy!

I wasn't saying that I doubt him, just that I don't know him, so I cannot know and I don't like to make assumptions

(And likewise, I hope I can take your word on that too!)

I never said I was a good girl, you don't have my word to take, you can decide for yourself if you think I'm a good girl or not. Then again, I'm not sure a mere forum board would give a thorough image of who a person is.

But I wonder how/where he/I can find "a good girl" in real life!

There is no secret. Just be aware of who surrounds you, try to see past first impressions, try to see their real personality, I'm sure there are plenty of good girls around your place.

[burnt glitter]

Interesting topic. I think this comic sums up my feelings about it.

 niceguys.png   127.28K   72 downloads

It's a bit of a read but it brings a different light to this topic.

Also, both males and females go for appearance a lot of the time. You can't tell what someone's personality is by looking at them. Blaming one gender or the other of being more guilty of this is a little silly.

[La'aKea]

Lol, I like Randall Munroe ^^

"It'll feel comfortable and natural. You'll quietly revise your definition of love and try to be happy. And sometimes you will be."

This is most horrid Joke relationship. Love cannot be forced.


"Only the wistfulness in your gaze and the tiny pause before you say "I love you" will hint that this wasn't the ending you'd hoped for."

Exactly. The "nice guy" described in the first post is exactly like this guy in the comic. He thinks that the girl is bad for not wanting to be with him and that he could have made her happy. But what about the girl's feelings? She didn't love him/was not interested and as I repeated in previous posts, this is not something that can be blamed on her.

I disagree with the end of the comic though: choosing a jerk over that guy is not the solution, but at least with the jerk she knows it's not a serious thing right from the start. Not a relationship that will make her second guess her values and mess her up. No one should have to revise their expectations.


Ooh and I think you can know a bit of the person's personality when looking at them. You know, how they move, how they dress, how they hold their head and shoulders: it can give hints on who they are. Of course, nothing like talking to the person ^^ as appearance and personality are sometimes totally disjointed.

[faraithi sayounara~*waves*]

I wasn't saying that I doubt him, just that I don't know him, so I cannot know and I don't like to make assumptions

Don't worry, I just happened to know him, so I felt moved to say that I think he's a nice guy!

I never said I was a good girl, you don't have my word to take...

Actually, I thought I had these words of yours to take, :

I was the nice girl, the "friend", and didn't get noticed because the guys were only interested in easy-to-have-sex-with, not too smart, physically godlike girls

...you can decide for yourself if you think I'm a good girl or not.

I hardly know you, but I feel like thinking you're a good girl anyway!

Then again, I'm not sure a mere forum board would give a thorough image of who a person is.

It certainly can't give a thorough image, but it's fun to have some fun once in a while, isn't it?

I'm sure there are plenty of good girls around your place.

I wish I could be as sure as you are!
I'll need to work on that!

Also, both males and females go for appearance a lot of the time. You can't tell what someone's personality is by looking at them.

Which is why I never like to post my personal photo on the internet!

[burnt glitter]

^I get what you mean. At least on a forum you have some background of who that person is/what they think (at least based upon what they post), while in person you'd just be approaching them based upon initial physical attraction (even the "she looks like a nice girl" thought is based upon how you perceive her looks), so it's a bit different.

Also, glad to see you back, man.

@La'aKea, exactly. Another point it brings up is that a lot of guys don't think about the fact that they settle to be the "friend" and don't make their feelings 100% clear from the get-go, and they expect the girl to know how he feels because he's being so nice. Even if they think they're making their feelings obvious, the girl will assume you're just a nice guy since you're her friend from the start, not a potential love interest. Even worse is if they're rejected and they settle to be just her friend in hopes that she'll change her mind, which sets him up for constant disappointment. Not to say that being persistent is a bad thing, since I know that there are some couples out there where one rejected the other for a long time, and then one was finally given a chance and they ended up falling in love, but it's not common.

I think the ending is tied into the perception of what the 'nice guy' in the comic thinks. He thinks he's the only one for her, hence why he deems every guy she's going to date to be a jerk because he deems them to be not good enough for her, and most of all, the guy she's dating isn't him, so it makes sense it'll be just some random jerk

[Lawrence]

omg i wasnt here when i got bashed on! yay sleep >.<;

anyway i didnt mean it to go one sided, it's just a general thought and it can and most probably will go both ways, it's just the thought i wanted to put out there

so yeah, i do apologize if i offended anybody with this ;o

edit: i can actualy see the cultural differences now, in the Philippines, just mention the word or concept of dating on the get go and expect a "dont talk to me... EVER" response from the other end

edit2: well, at least this got a good debate going on, that's a bonus

[chr0nik©]

Unlike chr0nik©, I think that nice guys win, in the end. Maybe it will look as if you're struggling to find love, at first, but love will find its way to you, there is no way a good person would get denied all their life, someone has to notice their awesomeness at some point. While the bad ppl, they will end up alone (or in a joke relationship/marriage).

Lol, it's a known fact that nice guys don't win. If you guys are talking about finding girls and stuff like that then it's when my point comes to play. Nice guys are not sexually attractive to women because they are controlable and not challenging enough... there have been research where it is proven that woman (and I don't mean every single woman) prefer someone who can be challenge and not a "yes" man because they want to share the power position (challenge and be challenged). From your reply, I could guess that you think that from the movies where the nice guys end up getting the girl and the a**eh*le ends up alone. However, that's just Hollywood.

When it comes to a working and business enviroment then it also comes to play as if you're a nice guy then everyone will step over you and you won't get anywhere. Imaging this, there's an interview at a company and there are two candidates, an alpha male and a nice guy.. who do you think will get the job? the person who can present himself with the confidence to challenge his state and opinions or the nice guy who says yes to anything?

Another example is the animal kingdom... do you think that the female animals will be around the weaker male? or will they go to the alpha male, the one who can protect them from the others?

How do I know this? because I used to be one from the age of 16 till the age of 21. I was the one that never got the girl because I was no more than a listening ear (while she would talk about her problems with the people that she fancied) and how did I get rid of it? realised that I don't have to be nice (and I don't mean rude) and it has helped me a lot. Also I know this because I have friends, who are older than me (24- upwards) who are "nice guys" and are single, virgins and living with their parents.

I've been to clubs and I've seen nice guys buying women drinks and it ends up a total disaster, while the alpha male ends up getting the girls. Trust me, I've seen this quiet a lot.