23094 replies to this topic

[Kuraudo17]

Never understood the concept of supporting the artist by buying their music. Their music should be good enough for me to want to buy them.

[Punkin]

I agree with this ^ -- if I don't like an album or single, or DVD, I won't buy it to own a physical copy, no matter how much I love the artist. That's why stuff like YT and Spotify are great. I can't tell you how many times I've watched a DVD or listened to a song/album online and liked it so much I bought a physical copy of it, but also how many times I've been so damn happy I didn't buy a physical copy because I didn't like the product.

[hanawopun]

^ ^^  Wait, WHAT??  I never implied supporting an artist for content you don't care for.??  That makes no sense.

 

Never understood the concept of supporting the artist by buying their music. 

 

Allow me to explain it to you then.  An established artist that is in this case usually working for a company / label will lose their job if the music doesn't sell.  If it sells and does well, they retain their employment.  Not sure how much clearer it could be.

[Fall]

If the artist is already established, they get more benefit from you buying a poster than buying a CD.  Fair warning, this will be a long read for anyone that cares:

 

Spoiler

In almost every country, including in Japan for non-idols, the vast majority of the money that an artist makes will be through ticket sales and merch, with 90% of the profit from CD sales going directly to the record label as payment for promotion and possibly distribution if the label is its own distributor. In those cases, if the artist doesn't sell enough CDs, the label may drop the artist once the contract is up, and that artist can sign elsewhere. The point of the label is to invest the money into promotion to make the artist popular enough that the label can get a return on their investment via media sales and licensing, and then the management agency for the artist is responsible for the artist's profits since that's where the management derives its own share. That's also why artists like Prince later decided to distribute their own music since it was more profitable for them even if they sold fewer units, after already becoming popular.  The division is when the record label, management agency, groups, and artists are all separate entities that are disconnected. Of the 10% that isn't taken directly by the record label from CD sales, managers will take a further tenth of that, and the rest of the royalties are split between artists inside of a group/band.  In that case, the vast majority of any money that is made by an artist is done explicitly through ticket sales, advertising deals, signed merchandise, and appearance fees. If you live in the west and want to support an artist that is already extremely popular, go to their concerts and buy signed merchandise.

 

Where we get the difference here with idols is the rare cases like UF when the group/artist is more or less owned by the company. UF owns both the label and the management agency (who in turn own the groups), so just like western artists, the company will still get the vast majority of their money from ticket sales and at-venue merchandise (which in this case would also include CDs they manufacture) with the broader distribution largely being a matter of charting prestige rather than profit. Even someone as great as Airi simply will not be worth enough profit in CD sales for that alone to be any incentive to keep her. Unless all of her singles average ~25k every time, it would hardly even be seen as a factor. She puts butts in seats though, and that loyal audience is why she's valuable.

 

With idols... they're paid a contractual salary. For most of their careers, it's not even a very good one anymore. It does more good for idols to buy their individual merchandise than it does to buy the physical media. If you like the prestige of seeing an album or single higher up on Oricon, more power to you. Placing 4th on Oricon instead of 15th is just not going to benefit Airi until the next time her contract is up for negotiation, at which point they'll be looking much more closely at tickets, merch, and at-venue/promotional event sales for those CDs rather than how well it charted. That's why many of UF's low-charting artists are still able to be supported. It's also why the sales cycles are so slow these days and rely more on events and tours with smaller venues than large national sales campaigns. They know where the safe money is and stick with that. I've expressed my frustration with that decision many times before since I do believe the groups under UF could be far more popular, but that'll be a post for another time.

 

The major benefit that Airi gets by sticking with a contract under UF is that they will be as loyal to her as she is to them so long as she's able to at least break even. She'll be paid mostly the same regardless since she'll still attract an audience. Compare that to someone like Meimi who is taking an active risk in her career by tying herself to a label like Victor where they will have no loyalty to her, and unless she becomes super popular, actually will have her future decided by remaining profitable with digital sales.

[hanawopun]

^ Thanks for sharing that, and of course the direct income from live events is indeed the typical formula for any artist (hence why most bands tour in the USA, especially back in the days of record label dominance and power over an artist).  I was just trying to make a general point that sales still support an artist if not directly to their pocket more to their existence or relevance to retain any sort of employment. 

However that last paragraph about album sales versus individual merchandise is very interesting and a foreign concept in the music industry from where I live.  The fact that if I buy an Airi beach towel does her more good than her own solo music album as a singer is really sad.

 

Nice that you mentioned Meimi, who ties w/ Airi as my all time favorite idol.  Indeed she has taken risks but so far she seems to be doing very well and most importantly seems very happy about her decisions.

[core2quad]

COUNTDOWN JAPAN 18/19


End-of-the-year greeting

[Kuraudo17]

If the artist is already established, they get more benefit from you buying a poster than buying a CD.  Fair warning, this will be a long read for anyone that cares:

 

Spoiler

In almost every country, including in Japan for non-idols, the vast majority of the money that an artist makes will be through ticket sales and merch, with 90% of the profit from CD sales going directly to the record label as payment for promotion and possibly distribution if the label is its own distributor. In those cases, if the artist doesn't sell enough CDs, the label may drop the artist once the contract is up, and that artist can sign elsewhere. The point of the label is to invest the money into promotion to make the artist popular enough that the label can get a return on their investment via media sales and licensing, and then the management agency for the artist is responsible for the artist's profits since that's where the management derives its own share. That's also why artists like Prince later decided to distribute their own music since it was more profitable for them even if they sold fewer units, after already becoming popular.  The division is when the record label, management agency, groups, and artists are all separate entities that are disconnected. Of the 10% that isn't taken directly by the record label from CD sales, managers will take a further tenth of that, and the rest of the royalties are split between artists inside of a group/band.  In that case, the vast majority of any money that is made by an artist is done explicitly through ticket sales, advertising deals, signed merchandise, and appearance fees. If you live in the west and want to support an artist that is already extremely popular, go to their concerts and buy signed merchandise.

 

Where we get the difference here with idols is the rare cases like UF when the group/artist is more or less owned by the company. UF owns both the label and the management agency (who in turn own the groups), so just like western artists, the company will still get the vast majority of their money from ticket sales and at-venue merchandise (which in this case would also include CDs they manufacture) with the broader distribution largely being a matter of charting prestige rather than profit. Even someone as great as Airi simply will not be worth enough profit in CD sales for that alone to be any incentive to keep her. Unless all of her singles average ~25k every time, it would hardly even be seen as a factor. She puts butts in seats though, and that loyal audience is why she's valuable.

 

With idols... they're paid a contractual salary. For most of their careers, it's not even a very good one anymore. It does more good for idols to buy their individual merchandise than it does to buy the physical media. If you like the prestige of seeing an album or single higher up on Oricon, more power to you. Placing 4th on Oricon instead of 15th is just not going to benefit Airi until the next time her contract is up for negotiation, at which point they'll be looking much more closely at tickets, merch, and at-venue/promotional event sales for those CDs rather than how well it charted. That's why many of UF's low-charting artists are still able to be supported. It's also why the sales cycles are so slow these days and rely more on events and tours with smaller venues than large national sales campaigns. They know where the safe money is and stick with that. I've expressed my frustration with that decision many times before since I do believe the groups under UF could be far more popular, but that'll be a post for another time.

 

The major benefit that Airi gets by sticking with a contract under UF is that they will be as loyal to her as she is to them so long as she's able to at least break even. She'll be paid mostly the same regardless since she'll still attract an audience. Compare that to someone like Meimi who is taking an active risk in her career by tying herself to a label like Victor where they will have no loyalty to her, and unless she becomes super popular, actually will have her future decided by remaining profitable with digital sales.

So this is why Airi has videos hard selling goods, but not music. Interesting. Where is this from? I'd love to see the rest of their conversations.

[Fall]

That was all me. By saying it was a "long read," I just meant that I can't touch a keyboard most days without accidentally producing something that approaches the length of a novel. I just put most of it into spoilers to save on space for those who don't like having to scroll so much through a topic.

 

Spoiler

UF's focus on goods over music is even a bit more zealous than many other agencies managing idols, but that was a trend that mostly increased as the CD sales for H!P decreased. After Japan's economy nose-dived in the early '00s, the drop-off in single and album sales leveled out by mid-2003.  The CD sales across all H!P groups at that point looked more like they do today, but without the full prevalence of the digital side of things to supplement profits. With fans still buying goods and tickets, but casual interest in the music leveling out, that's when you start to see things like the Sakuragumi/Otomegumi experiment and more attempts to increase venue count rather than just venue size. Pretty much everything you see from mid-2003 was an attempt to perfect that formula until the global recession solidified it. They've been a bit more willing to take promotional risks lately after Japan's economic recovery coinciding with the rise of MM's popularity in late 2012. That came with increased visibility for all H!P groups, but the CD sales for most of those groups were still largely tied to wota making multiple purchases for cards, handshake event tickets, etc.

 

I have some doubts about how well some of those risks will pay off by the next recession if a bigger push isn't made while they're sitting on that bubble, but at the very least, the idols that gain popularity during recoveries tend to be fairly recession-proof if they've ever been in H!P. The next recession might put Airi's albums in the 3k-4k range like ManoEri's recession era albums, but Airi will still have the fans that followed her from C-ute to attend her shows.

 

That puts Airi in a more relaxed position with UF than it does with a different agency and label. So long as she still has a desire to work and be in the public spotlight, she can expect a steady and reliable income until her next contract renewal. I used the example of Tamura Meimi earlier because I knew she was a favorite of hanawopun, but she still serves as a great example of the alternative here as well. Should Meimi's contract negotiations come up after a recession or just after poor sales, her guarantee may be lower, she may end up switching labels, or possibly signing back under UF for management.  By comparison, Airi just has to do what she's been doing for the past decade, but with much less paperwork overall and a more relaxed pace if she needs it.

 

It would seem that I did it again here as well...

[Greyface]

^
Worth mentioning that Suzuki also has her Ray model gig, which unless I'm mistaken is the kind of job that keeps fulltime models fed, even if not comfortably or allowing savings. Just as far as Suzuki is a pretty solid bet for the agency, at least for now.

[hanawopun]

^^ Wow, Fallacia, well said! Thanks for sharing those thoughts... they are rather shocking to me as I felt that CDs were still doing ok in Japan but it looks like they exist only as mere tokens.  Very intersting... and sad.

[sheikhyerbutay]

^^^ Thanks for the info Fallacia.  I have never read anyone explain it as well as you have here on this tread.  I had a hunch this was the reality of their marketing plan.  There is no way UF and all it's many employees could survive on the CD sales they make alone.  

[AiriFan2368]

http://www.hello-onl...oll-2018/page-3

 

 

Results are in!

Winner of the 2nd annual Female Up-Front Acts Poll 2018 is.... SUZUKI AIRI

1. Suzuki Airi (341)

[chisafan]

I like her wild boar bit

(あけおめ！　Happy NY!)

 

Spoiler

I never do streaming services besides YT so I don't know much about them but I do hear they have issues, like getting locked out of your own library kind of thing. Physical media has the benefit of being almost impossible to lock down - you own it forever (as long as you rip and make backups). Some DRM stuff. And then there is the issue of sound quality... . It would be nice to skip the landfill aspect of CDs but the reality is corporations usually find a way to ruin things that could be great.

 

Thanks, Fallacia, for the industry info .

TLDR buy merch.

[Kuraudo17]

Airi did game programming. She probably only did a simple pong game, but who else wants to see it?  

 

https://www.facebook...481518588529169

[sheikhyerbutay]

This may be old news for everyone, but I just stumbled onto it today.  I don't understand most of it but the surprise is worth watching!

[Kuraudo17]

Where do you go for your Airi discussions/news? 2ch seems to have completely lost interest and this thread is inactive too.

[ItsudemoAibon]

Airi's dance crew.

https://www.instagra...id=3j3do9t9j984

All five °C-ute members are very busy doing great things but nobody spends much time paying attention to them though. Strange......

[Kuraudo17]

Unfortunate fate of graduated idols? Why did they have to disband

[sheikhyerbutay]

The very latest news is posted on Twitter, Twichy, and Instagram by the °C-ute girls themselves. It is all done in Japanese.  I do not have accounts with any of these, and I am not fluent in Nihongo, so I depend on 910%'s Facebook postings.  Every now and then Wota In Translation will do an in depth blog about °C-ute members.  

I still like coming here to Hello-online for anything C-ute related because there is lots of lore for me to still see.  But this is not an inter-net secure site.  You can pick-up viruses here.  A lot of people will not visit here because it is not secure.   I wish Hello-online admin here would make it secure, but do not know the reasons for keeping it as it is.
 

 

 Why did they have to disband

A rhetorical question, right?

[ItsudemoAibon]

I follow all five on Instagram which has a translation function. They pretty much keep current on that medium besides their blogs and Twitter. I've been an H!P fan long enough to watch them embrace social media and it's a beautiful thing. It used to be that the English-speaking fan forums and YouTube were about the only ways to try to keep up-to-date. Now we can follow them personally in practically real time, especially when they go live on Insta, YT or Showroom.