419 replies to this topic

[Neru Pyon Aishi]

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[Rhododendron]

I don't think the surprise is necessarily that a lot of Western fans think Sakura is pretty. It's more that she ranked so high when she's the least popular member in Japan. It's the same reason they're surprised that Kanon and Masaki rank so high.

 

I've always found it funny how popular Masaki is with the international fans (or, at least, the fans on this website), considering her lack of popularity with the Japanese fans. Like... I would've thought it would be the opposite or something. 

[Obsidian]

This can be the problem basing things off of 2ch commentary, like some people have already pointed out it isn't representative. Whilst there's still some major differences actually Sakura seems to have become reasonably popular 12th place and Masaki is a massive favourite and did well last year as well. It can be a mistake to judge popularity based on how many antis a member has or even less just the number of negative comments.

[Rhododendron]

^ If you're talking about that poll that was posted on the previous page, that doesn't seem to be reflective of the fanbase as a whole, only a small group of fans. I don't think Sakura, Kanon, and Masaki are unpopular based only on 2ch negativity. There's fan observations at events, various internet polls and rankings (some of which may be inaccurate, so you can't trust just one), and sales (handshake tickets, events, other goods). 

[Obsidian]

That's exactly my point, our poll is the same... compared to even the whole international fanbase it's only a small sample size of the type of people who spend a lot of time online and can communicate in English and frequent H!O. None of it is science and you do get different pictures about popularity from different places.

[Rhododendron]

But my point was that even though there are some weird little variations like people randomly coming up high in one ranking or selling out their goods when they usually don't, if you look at everything, you can get a pretty good idea of who is popular and who is not. For example, Sakura came up pretty high in that poll. Okay, that's one thing. But fans don't see many people wearing purple t-shirts during the concerts, her handshakes tickets and posters are pretty cheap on auction sites, her individual handshake events didn't sell very well, her solo events have been held at a place that holds very little people, and so on and so forth. I love Sakura, but I know she's not popular. I know why that is, and I accept it. There's no need to go around living in denial. Some of my favorites are popular; some of them aren't. That's just how things are. 

[ichibanb]

^You can't make a for certain judgement by those things you listed.  Just because Oda for example doesn't have a ton of people wearing her t-shirts doesn't mean she isn't popular, it just means someone else is maybe a little more popular.  You can only wear one shirt. She may not be the #1 girl with a lot of people but she still could be pretty high on their lists.  She's still new compared to the other girls and her populairty is on the rise. Being popular doesn't mean your everyone's #1.

 

Maachan is another person that the know it all's say isn't popular but from the stuff I've seen she sure 'seems' at least some what popular.  I see her name come up again and again from Japanese and foreign fans alike, and it's usually positive stuff. She's definitely a big favorite here, and obviously was at that wota event.

 

Old sources are no longer relevant, people's popularity shifts and changes over time.  Even if any of these girls were unpopular at one point doesn't mean they still are. Look at Erina, she was one of the top placers in last years poll, but she dropped hard this year for whatever reason. She may be near the top again next year.. who knows. Yes I know 1 poll doesn't mean jack in the whole, but it's at least something to go on.

 

None of us know for certain, but it really bugs me when people come on here and basically tell everyone that they know all, and the rest of us don't know what were talking about. Sharing opinions is fine but don't make statements like you know for certain how things are. It just makes you come across as arrogant, although I'm sure you didnt mean to.

[taylorniw]

Unpopular doesn't always mean not well liked. That's not what was being said. That you see a member talked about often doesn't mean she has a ton of fans. It just means she has very vocal fans. He provided several other good indicators of popularity besides t-shirts. And really, if you're not someone's #1 they're probably not buying a lot of your stuff, which is pretty important.

[Mickey.]

^^ So then, Kanon ranked 10th in that particular poll. Does the same apply to her? Or only for Masaki?

[ichibanb]

^^ what I'm saying is there's no way of knowing for sure.  Are the vocal fans the majority or minority? Who knows.  It's a small % of people who go to the handshake events, buy posters, etc.  There's a LOT more casual fans then hard core. So you may be able to say she's not super popular with the hard core fans with 'some' confidence, but not in general. 

 

It's not that important in the big picture anyway, unless they're so unpopular that there's a chance of them being removed from the group, which isn't the case for any of these girls.

 

I'm not even gonna try to get into it with you again Mickey.. not worth my time. I've said my piece.

[Mickey.]

^ I finally remember you now. We had the same discussion on Masaki's thread some time ago.

You disregarded my opinion with the same 'Who knows. That's just your opinion and your opinion isn't fact.' argument while making obvious assertions yourself. Just like above.

 

So I'll take that as a "No." to my question and allege you of silly little bias. 

[ichibanb]

Omg, i think i expressed myself quite well thank you. You sure know how to push my buttons.. Now i remember why i had you blocked for awhile. Where the hell is the bias?? Let me try to explain in simple words for you. You cant know what the over all fan base thinks by what 'some' of the more hard core fans do or say. For you to say you know, and your one of the absolute worst at doing this mickey, is arrogant in my opinion. None of us know for certain, we can have a good idea by examples, but that's it, so my 'opinion' is just as good as yours. That is the only point im trying to get across. This applies to all the girls.

Do i like maachan and sakura? Of course. I just used them as an example since they have been the subject of these popularity discussions.

Ok, now if you still dont understand than that's your problem. I'm finished.

[taylorniw]

^^ what I'm saying is there's no way of knowing for sure.  Are the vocal fans the majority or minority? Who knows.  It's a small % of people who go to the handshake events, buy posters, etc.  There's a LOT more casual fans then hard core. So you may be able to say she's not super popular with the hard core fans with 'some' confidence, but not in general. 

 

It's not that important in the big picture anyway, unless they're so unpopular that there's a chance of them being removed from the group, which isn't the case for any of these girls.

 

I'm not even gonna try to get into it with you again Mickey.. not worth my time. I've said my piece.

 

I disagree on the casual fan thing. And since casual fans usually just buy the music and not much else, their opinion doesn't really matter here. It's the hardcore fans who have more sway on how the members and the company view a girl's popularity.

[Mickey.]

None of us know for certain, we can have a good idea by examples, but that's it, so my 'opinion' is just as good as yours. That is the only point im trying to get across. This applies to all the girls.

 

And the point I already tried to get accross to you before is that you actually can. The more examples you have the better of an idea you get. 

The reasons why Rhododendron and taylorniw just mentioned. But these same reasons were already mentioned on our last discussion. 

Don't call others arrogant. You yourself are the one pushing your buttons.

[Happy Now?]

Omg, i think i expressed myself quite well thank you. You sure know how to push my buttons.. Now i remember why i had you blocked for awhile. Where the hell is the bias?? Let me try to explain in simple words for you. You cant know what the over all fan base thinks by what 'some' of the more hard core fans do or say. For you to say you know, and your one of the absolute worst at doing this mickey, is arrogant in my opinion. None of us know for certain, we can have a good idea by examples, but that's it, so my 'opinion' is just as good as yours. That is the only point im trying to get across. This applies to all the girls.

 

 

Yeah, we can't know for sure, but it's a valid estimate. People base that estimate on real numbers. Number of people who go to handshake events, resell/trade value of the girl's merchandise, amount people pay when they auction off signed merchandise, and other things that didn't come from someone's imagination. And, you're right. It's not 100% accurate, but it's pretty close, or at least the closest we can get to something this confusing.

 

There are different stages or categories when it comes to popularity. The girls can be well known, well liked, or well favorited. Well known might be someone like Zukki, who tends to catch people's attention because she.....stands out   . Well liked might be someone like Harunan, who doesn't seem to have many antis (or at least as many as others). Well favorited would be someone like Riho, who has many people supporting her as their favorite member. Or you could have members who are all 3, like Sayu. I'm still not sure where Sakura fits in, but I'm pretty confident saying that she's somewhere near or at the bottom. BUT if they continue going on popular TV shows, she could be moved to "well known" pretty quickly, or maybe even "well favorited" in time. Well liked.....might be a stretch for her. The wota are.......picky. 

 

So, while I wouldn't go to court and swear by it, I think it's alright to make statements of the girls' popularity compared with each other on a tiny forum in the far corners of the internet.  But, of course, as I'm free to believe that popularity can be determined by the information we have, you're free to believe that it can't be determined, based on the information that we don't.

[ichibanb]

I disagree on the casual fan thing. And since casual fans usually just buy the music and not much else, their opinion doesn't really matter here. It's the hardcore fans who have more sway on how the members and the company view a girl's popularity.

 

Wait a sec, did you actually say you think there are more hard core fans than casual??    I sure hope not.

 

This whole debate from my point of view at least doesnt have anything to do with what the company thinks or what just the wotas think.  This was simply about me stating a common sense point of view that while we have a pretty good idea who the wotas think is popular we can't know what the fan base as a whole thinks with real accuracy, since as stated casual fans don't buy a ton of stuff like the wotas do.  My actual main gripe was people stating so called facts to people who were giving their opinion on the matter and basically dismissing their point of view, which has been done many times in the past by mostly the same people.  That bugs me.     I'll just block those kind of people in the future so I don't have to be annoyed by them.

[Da-manta-ray]

^ It's not that there are *more* hardcore fans, it's that because they spend a lot more than casual fans, they are the ones who tend to be considered first when it comes to designing products and releasing singles. 

[Muyim Pimoup]

Sorry before, but will the general election keep did this year? with two recent members addition in  momusu14 and s/mileage, it is more interesting 

[TheFicusWithSuperPowers]

Okay, let's do it!!!

[WhiteForte]

I guess we will have to change the rules to keep the voting more consistent. Last time a couple of people complained about "new accounts" so we should add a rule for that.