24241 replies to this topic

[Greyface]

Further more and to my knowledge Japanese, especial young adults, don’t emphasise on dating like westerns do. They are keen to experience independence and craft their personalities before they even consider the idea of being with another person. Besides, most of us know the standards of a woman/girlfriend/wife in Japanese male dominated society.

I'd have trouble disagreeing more. The dating culture in Japan is different from that in America, but starting around university age pressure to date actually seems very intense. 合コン (Goukon) are a major driver of social interaction among university students and young workers.
Pressure on women to marry young isn't what it was in the 80s, but it's still a world apart from (for example) the USA where women who aren't even considered to have "put off" marriage still wait until their mid 30s. Before those 20 year old women marry they DO date, and they DO have physical contact with men. Idols are removed from normal society by those rules/expectations, and in general will feel like they are giving something up for their career.

That said, I do agree with the basic premise that they're not disbanding primarily over a desire to date.
I have some private theories about some of the bigger reasons for the breakup but the one I'd like to share is that the members as a whole don't have any drive as artists (Suzuki aside). When they talked about goals as a group it was always and only more fans and bigger venues. It was never about better music or more touching performances. So, after reaching SSA, they weighed the possibility of playing stadium sized shows and thought that they'd hit the top of their goal mountain. After SSA it would be "maintain this" or "try to descend gracefully" and seriously... if somebody asked them, "Now you've accomplished your goal of playing SSA, what's next for you?" and they answered, "We'd like to not lose our popularity quickly..." they'd get yelled at for days by management. When they talked about their goals as individual members Suzuki was the only one served by actually performing as an idol. Yajima and Okai were served only in that it was a reason to be in the public eye, etc. So if the group united has no reason to stay together, and most of the members have no reason to stay together...

[WanThePlatypus]

• Tanaka Reina once said the C-ute will bankrupt Hello-Project
• C-ute is a solely Hello-Project project and it can not be sold or obtained by any promotional company 
• C-ute became careless with the rules, cause of daily increase and influence of international fan base

Curious, what do you mean C-ute will bankrupt H!P? When did she say this? I don't remember hearing about this at all.

 

By the way, I think the last 2 points are very valid. Probably all of C-ute's IP is under UF or H!P and it's impossible to continue as C-ute when all their songs are under a different label. And I think C-ute became careless because of how long they've been working, nothing to do with the increase of the fan base.

[sheikhyerbutay]

Wis34, that was quite a "rant", but it was not a bad one.  I agree with some of what you said.

As I understand it, management gave °C-ute three options ( IF I am wrong on this please set me straight  ~  I am sure H!O fans will! ):

1.  Graduate and continue as °C-ute outside of the Hello! Project.

 

2.  Graduate and re-form the group under a new name.

3.  Graduate and disband.

The girls wanted to continue as C-ute, but inside the Hello! Project.  They did not want to graduate from H!P. 

It is easy to see why they wanted to stay under the H!P umbrella.  Every one who has left H!P has seen a lot less promotion from their agency, Up Front.  Graduates careers have slowly withered into obscurity.

The girls wanted °C-ute to stay forever associated with H!P.  IF they had graduated and continued as C-ute, they could have dated and conducted themselves as free adults in Japanese society.  That is not what they wanted.  It is they who elected to disband.

There is not much we can do about it.  It was their choice.

[Americanotaku]

Yeah I agree with sheikhyerbutay

And this is the best way for them to go instead of drying up and being forgotten or turned in "they're still making music?".

They get to go out with a bang and they did all the dreams they could do as Hello project members.

[Wis34]

"Tanaka Reina once said the C-ute will bankrupt Hello-Project"

What ? In which context she said that ?? Never heard of ^^

 

Honestly i can’t remember, it was while back. I’ve try to look up the link for confirmation with no luck.

All i can remember is that she didn’t use the exact words, but she implied that.

I'd have trouble disagreeing more. The dating culture in Japan is different from that in America, but starting around university age pressure to date actually seems very intense. 合コン (Goukon) are a major driver of social interaction among university students and young workers.
Pressure on women to marry young isn't what it was in the 80s, but it's still a world apart from (for example) the USA where women who aren't even considered to have "put off" marriage still wait until their mid 30s. Before those 20 year old women marry they DO date, and they DO have physical contact with men. Idols are removed from normal society by those rules/expectations, and in general will feel like they are giving something up for their career.

That said, I do agree with the basic premise that they're not disbanding primarily over a desire to date.
I have some private theories about some of the bigger reasons for the breakup but the one I'd like to share is that the members as a whole don't have any drive as artists (Suzuki aside). When they talked about goals as a group it was always and only more fans and bigger venues. It was never about better music or more touching performances. So, after reaching SSA, they weighed the possibility of playing stadium sized shows and thought that they'd hit the top of their goal mountain. After SSA it would be "maintain this" or "try to descend gracefully" and seriously... if somebody asked them, "Now you've accomplished your goal of playing SSA, what's next for you?" and they answered, "We'd like to not lose our popularity quickly..." they'd get yelled at for days by management. When they talked about their goals as individual members Suzuki was the only one served by actually performing as an idol. Yajima and Okai were served only in that it was a reason to be in the public eye, etc. So if the group united has no reason to stay together, and most of the members have no reason to stay together...

 

There have been some changes, but only to major cities. Goukon or group dating is not actual dating as far as i know. Mostly is a quick fix, encourage by the government to battle declining birth rate and it doesn’t work. Quite the opposite, especially with the high pressure and harassment in business parties. As for marriage and children is even harder, highly expensive, with minimal paternity/maternity leave, no daycare, literally no support system for new working parents. Young Japanese adults male and female don’t consider dating mostly because of heavy working schedules, lost of freedom and expenses. 

 

On your your second note there is some truth and it makes sense. C-ute can not exist outside Hello-Project.

 

Overall, I was trying to make a point of how many factors led to this decision and dating didn’t play major role. Ultimately is their lives and know what’s best for them, i just wish we could see them in a different status.   

[WanThePlatypus]

Sometimes I believe in the reason C-ute gave for disbanding, and other times I don't. The timing is too coincidental. I hope that at least some of them continue outside of UF so they can speak freely about the disbanding in the future without fear of consequences from their agency.

[Nana127]

Off-topic, but I made a calendar with all of C-ute's last events and concerts that have been announced so far. Hope it helps anybody who's thinking about coming to Japan to see them.

 

https://imgur.com/a/Z8u9l

 

I know it's hard coming to terms with C-ute disbanding, especially since we don't know the full story and motives behind it. Personally though, I'm going to just enjoy the last few months we have with them and contemplate more about all that later.

 

If anybody needs help figuring out how to get tickets and whatnot, feel free to message me. I can't help you apply for FC tickets since I'll be going myself, but I can try to help you find other ways to get tickets.

[Greyface]

There have been some changes, but only to major cities. Goukon or group dating is not actual dating as far as i know. Mostly is a quick fix, encourage by the government to battle declining birth rate and it doesn’t work. Quite the opposite, especially with the high pressure and harassment in business parties. As for marriage and children is even harder, highly expensive, with minimal paternity/maternity leave, no daycare, literally no support system for new working parents. Young Japanese adults male and female don’t consider dating mostly because of heavy working schedules, lost of freedom and expenses. 

*side-eye* I don't want to say you're wrong, but this doesn't even remotely jibe with anything I've seen or heard. If your definition of "actual dating" is what happens AFTER classical dating (i.e. starting a long term relationship) Yes, Goukon isn't "actual dating" but if you are talking about dating in the sense of setting up a scheduled time to meet people of the gender you're interested in to meet them and have fun, Goukon is "actual dating." And has nothing to do with the government. Or birthrate. Can you give me some sense of where these ideas came from? I'm curious to know if I've got it backwards, because this is totally snow from a blue sky.

[sheikhyerbutay]

Off-topic, but I made a calendar with all of C-ute's last events and concerts that have been announced so far. Hope it helps anybody who's thinking about coming to Japan to see them.

 

https://imgur.com/a/Z8u9l

 

I know it's hard coming to terms with C-ute disbanding, especially since we don't know the full story and motives behind it. Personally though, I'm going to just enjoy the last few months we have with them and contemplate more about all that later.

 

If anybody needs help figuring out how to get tickets and whatnot, feel free to message me. I can't help you apply for FC tickets since I'll be going myself, but I can try to help you find other ways to get tickets.

Thank you very much! 

[Americanotaku]

Great calendar. I don't know if it was the announcement of the final single or seeing last next to everything but seeing that I can buy final goods is really hitting me. I'm starting to come to reality of things.

And the only thing we know about the disbandment is what they can tell us. Until then we just speculate and wait. Maybe we will find the true reason in the future.

[WanThePlatypus]

Chisa Airi in DVD Magazine Vol. 69 ^^
 

[LittleBerry]

^

 

That is so adorable!    And funny

[Margie GiGi]

Credit to 910 percent

Maimi wrote on her blog

Today, C-ute had a shooting with the leader and sub leader of each Hello Project group and H! P Trainees, starting the morning.

My heart was filled with gratitude for Kouhai young members .
(T ^ T)♡
Wait for a while till we can announce it. ♡

 

 

I wonder what the shooting was for?

[Wis34]

*side-eye* I don't want to say you're wrong, but this doesn't even remotely jibe with anything I've seen or heard. If your definition of "actual dating" is what happens AFTER classical dating (i.e. starting a long term relationship) Yes, Goukon isn't "actual dating" but if you are talking about dating in the sense of setting up a scheduled time to meet people of the gender you're interested in to meet them and have fun, Goukon is "actual dating." And has nothing to do with the government. Or birthrate. Can you give me some sense of where these ideas came from? I'm curious to know if I've got it backwards, because this is totally snow from a blue sky.

 

What i wrote has nothing to do with personal opinion. Its information i obtain after hours and hours of research on this subject. Japanese do not view dating with the ''standard definition''. For some, spend time/hang out with a friend, classmate of the same gender with no romantic interest can also be a date. They even consider date when they spend time with a family member. 

 

Its imposible to share all my knowledge and I’m not interested to say who’s right or wrong. I suggest to do your own research. Here are few random links if your are interested:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=2XllGh3OExA

http://www.ibtimes.c...oo-late-1562867

http://money.cnn.com...ating-services/

[Greyface]

^
OIC: I suggest living in Japan, seeing how Japanese talk to each other, and talking to young Japanese people. This is not an appeal to my superior authority; the view from the outside is always different form the view inside, which is different again from the view from a distance. Sometimes distance gives clarity to overall patterns that aren't visible from nearby, and I'm not one of those young people. At the same time, I'm familiar with those reports about the declining population, and I never found them convincing. Still don't, but at least I know what you're talking about now.

One thing that is just a factual point though: You linked 2 articles talking about government sponsored/created Konkatsu (婚活) (trying to get people to find somebody to marry). That's a totally different thing from Gokon (合コン) (which I'm holding forward as a Japanese style of dating). Furthermore most konkatsu are not government sponsored; most are put on by companies as a paid service.

[zam（仮）]

Nagi in Okayama prefecture successfully increased its population. What the town did was provide incentive for familes to have babies. One of the incentive implemented was a new school fee system. For the second child to enrol at the same school as the first child, the school fees would be halved. For any subsequent child to enrol ( from the same family ), the fees would be waived. So now most of the household in that town atleast have 3 kids.

-- Here, I found the information, its from a TV programme called Japanology. In this episode the topic was Day Care for Kids.

[Wis34]

GREYFACE: I’m glad we came to an understanding and thanks for clarifying Konkatsu and Gokon. 

 

Overall, in my original post i was trying to point out how wrong was to naively and mindlessly justify C-ute disbanding for the purpose off dating. Since westerns project their own culture and understanding. When in fact have little knowledge and understanding on how Japanese society works. 

 

 

ZAM: Thank for sharing the video, it was really interesting to watch and I’m relief that they are doing something. 

[vutt]

btw. what is this: http://www.cdjapan.c...ct/NEOEGA-25900

 

1/3 scale - so its about half a meter high...

[Kuraudo17]

Chisa Airi in DVD Magazine Vol. 69 ^^
 

Where did you find this? No torrent yet?

 

Further more and to my knowledge Japanese, especial young adults, don’t emphasise on dating like westerns do. They are keen to experience independence and craft their personalities before they even consider the idea of being with another person. Besides, most of us know the standards of a woman/girlfriend/wife in Japanese male dominated society.

I'd have trouble disagreeing more. The dating culture in Japan is different from that in America, but starting around university age pressure to date actually seems very intense. 合コン (Goukon) are a major driver of social interaction among university students and young workers.
Pressure on women to marry young isn't what it was in the 80s, but it's still a world apart from (for example) the USA where women who aren't even considered to have "put off" marriage still wait until their mid 30s. Before those 20 year old women marry they DO date, and they DO have physical contact with men. Idols are removed from normal society by those rules/expectations, and in general will feel like they are giving something up for their career.

That said, I do agree with the basic premise that they're not disbanding primarily over a desire to date.
I have some private theories about some of the bigger reasons for the breakup but the one I'd like to share is that the members as a whole don't have any drive as artists (Suzuki aside). When they talked about goals as a group it was always and only more fans and bigger venues. It was never about better music or more touching performances. So, after reaching SSA, they weighed the possibility of playing stadium sized shows and thought that they'd hit the top of their goal mountain. After SSA it would be "maintain this" or "try to descend gracefully" and seriously... if somebody asked them, "Now you've accomplished your goal of playing SSA, what's next for you?" and they answered, "We'd like to not lose our popularity quickly..." they'd get yelled at for days by management. When they talked about their goals as individual members Suzuki was the only one served by actually performing as an idol. Yajima and Okai were served only in that it was a reason to be in the public eye, etc. So if the group united has no reason to stay together, and most of the members have no reason to stay together...

 

Airi is the only one with a backup plan given her Keio degree. Why would you single her out as the only one interested in being an artist? I think you're going off of the character image sold to us by UFA.

Wis34, that was quite a "rant", but it was not a bad one.  I agree with some of what you said.

As I understand it, management gave °C-ute three options ( IF I am wrong on this please set me straight  ~  I am sure H!O fans will! ):

1.  Graduate and continue as °C-ute outside of the Hello! Project.

 

2.  Graduate and re-form the group under a new name.

3.  Graduate and disband.

The girls wanted to continue as C-ute, but inside the Hello! Project.  They did not want to graduate from H!P. 

It is easy to see why they wanted to stay under the H!P umbrella.  Every one who has left H!P has seen a lot less promotion from their agency, Up Front.  Graduates careers have slowly withered into obscurity.

The girls wanted °C-ute to stay forever associated with H!P.  IF they had graduated and continued as C-ute, they could have dated and conducted themselves as free adults in Japanese society.  That is not what they wanted.  It is they who elected to disband.

There is not much we can do about it.  It was their choice.

UFA wanted to get ride of C-ute? Or just wanted them out of H!P? But why? Does no one care about Maimi's explanation about being a bad example to the other groups, or do people think management made her say that?

[Kuraudo17]

Did Reina explain why she thinks C-ute will bankrupt UFA? UFA wasn't overly pushing C-ute when Reina was still in MM, right? Is C-ute overpaid or something?