55120 replies to this topic

[JennyInTokyo]

 

I don't see the problem in an idol expressing that she likes otheri idol groups, it doesn't mean that she dislikes the idol group she's in, it just shows she has interests in other groups as a listener. It is a shame H!P kind of isolate the girls to not express their love for other idol groups.

I think the specific issue with MM lies with the fans feeling "threatened" by AKB. Probably a lot of the fans have been around since the early days when Momusu was the top idol group in Japan, and those fans harbor animosity towards AKB for "stealing" Momusu's position (not saying I agree with it), so any mention of AKB in a positive light would be, to those fans, like a stab in the back. Newer fans who might not think that way likely conform to that thinking and it becomes an unfortunate cycle. Since idols are built on a foundation of catering to fans, if something makes fans mad, then management is going to prohibit it. Is it stupid? Yes. Is it immature? Yes. But that's the way it is. It's the same reason idols have the no dating rule. But again, from that short preview we really can't know what exactly was said in response to that question.

Btw, that gif is hilariously awesome. Did you make it?

 

Edit: ^ It would be a foreign fan.

 

I understand what you mean and I agree if Morning Musume expresses love for another idol group it makes the fans think they like other groups better than their own and it has a bad outlook on the idol group in general. But it would be nice to see which idol groups Morning Musume like. The fans ofc think Morning Musume is the #1 idol group and ofc they will be threatened when groups like AKB are thundering success with their group. So if a member announced they loved AKB48 it would make the fans think that they are fraternizing with the enemy  It's a shame that fans can be very hostile when it comes to the case of H!P fans disliking AKB48 I mean who cares if AKB48 is more popular? I can understand that they want MoMusu to be the top idol group and I wish for that to happen to but I am just happy that they are still releasing music and are still successful. I know the idol industry does isolate the girls a lot with dating, but I wish it didn't get so isolated that they can't even express their musical interests in case it causes a scene in the public eye or in the fandom. As much as I love idols sometimes I think the business side of it is a little too much But it will never change no matter what I think of it hehe! And I wonder if idol fandoms were a little less, how do I put it hostile?, then maybe the business side of it wouldn't be so isolated. I mean what if fans didn't care if their idols dated? Would that still mean the dating rule would exist?

 

No I didn't make the gif myself, I found it on tumblr and found it amusing

[lunalux45]

Morning Musume related and I thought this gif would make people giggle

That's my gif! haha

I'm glad you found it funny

[Krusha]

Gakisan <3,

I'm sorry if you consider a post with a few more lines than usual to be a lecture, that's not my intention. But it really is a fact that majority of fans of AKB48 react differently to an AKB48 girl saying she LOVES Morning Musume, than majority of H!P fans reacting to a H!P girl saying she LOVES AKB48. It could've been the opposite way around, for whatever reason, but it's not. It just isn't.

The idol world in Japan is gigantic, because it isn't just Top 10 Oricon groups, it's all the way down to the street level, so there's many groups, and many more fans. While all of these groups have most things in common, there's also differences, and then in the end, also differences between the fans. Compare a concert for example, you can easily see what fans of one group does in a concert, and what other fans do. For example things such as chants, or what sort of calls they use. I love this diversity, but I'm not so much down with the ugly intolerance we sometimes see.

[Blu-Cherri]

I also remember Gaki-san told Sayu off for wearing an Idolling!!! tshirt to dance rehearsal once.

 

Akari Takeuchi was able to show off her E-girls fandom on a tv show before so I hope MM girls can do the same(for whichever idol groups they love )

 

I bet Riho is a fan of Perfume, or at least has a lot of respect for them ^^

[Gakisan <3]

^^ I agree there is some intolerance seen when we cross groups, but I think you're making it out to be more prominent than it really is. There hasn't been many instances from either side, as far as I've seen. The concert with Okai singing AKB is more on the extreme, but that's only one example.

 

With AKB members who are known H!P fans, they usually have a wota character anyways, so fans are used to them praising other groups. If Erina had kept up with her AKB-loving persona rather than switching to Gaki, I'm sure she would get the same response as Sashihara/Kashiwagi does.

 

Recently, I would say the Japanese-media/netizens/wota have been more harsh against the 48-family than usual. Maybe that is why H!P wota have become more vocal about their dislike for AKB. It's still no excuse for fans to act this way though.

[GBA]

How did this discussion turn into a lecture about how AKB has more tolerant fans than HP?

Both groups have fans that are crazy competitive and overprotective. It's not really like one group of crazy is more prominent than the other.
Anyways, I would say a good majority of wota have no problem if their oshi is interested in other idols, so it's not really the fans that are keeping the girls from interacting.

I visited a couples 48fan forums. not only hating hp they hating their own member's. when one of members graduate they looks happy.
i think AKB has more tolerant fans than HP is bullshit.

[moonxdark'17]

 

 

I don't see the problem in an idol expressing that she likes otheri idol groups, it doesn't mean that she dislikes the idol group she's in, it just shows she has interests in other groups as a listener. It is a shame H!P kind of isolate the girls to not express their love for other idol groups.

I think the specific issue with MM lies with the fans feeling "threatened" by AKB. Probably a lot of the fans have been around since the early days when Momusu was the top idol group in Japan, and those fans harbor animosity towards AKB for "stealing" Momusu's position (not saying I agree with it), so any mention of AKB in a positive light would be, to those fans, like a stab in the back. Newer fans who might not think that way likely conform to that thinking and it becomes an unfortunate cycle. Since idols are built on a foundation of catering to fans, if something makes fans mad, then management is going to prohibit it. Is it stupid? Yes. Is it immature? Yes. But that's the way it is. It's the same reason idols have the no dating rule. But again, from that short preview we really can't know what exactly was said in response to that question.

Btw, that gif is hilariously awesome. Did you make it?

 

Edit: ^ It would be a foreign fan.

 

I understand what you mean and I agree if Morning Musume expresses love for another idol group it makes the fans think they like other groups better than their own and it has a bad outlook on the idol group in general. But it would be nice to see which idol groups Morning Musume like. The fans ofc think Morning Musume is the #1 idol group and ofc they will be threatened when groups like AKB are thundering success with their group. So if a member announced they loved AKB48 it would make the fans think that they are fraternizing with the enemy  It's a shame that fans can be very hostile when it comes to the case of H!P fans disliking AKB48 I mean who cares if AKB48 is more popular? I can understand that they want MoMusu to be the top idol group and I wish for that to happen to but I am just happy that they are still releasing music and are still successful. I know the idol industry does isolate the girls a lot with dating, but I wish it didn't get so isolated that they can't even express their musical interests in case it causes a scene in the public eye or in the fandom. As much as I love idols sometimes I think the business side of it is a little too much But it will never change no matter what I think of it hehe! And I wonder if idol fandoms were a little less, how do I put it hostile?, then maybe the business side of it wouldn't be so isolated. I mean what if fans didn't care if their idols dated? Would that still mean the dating rule would exist?

 

No I didn't make the gif myself, I found it on tumblr and found it amusing

 

Don't get me wrong or anything, I totally agree with you. It would be nice if we could hear which idols they like, what songs they sing in karaoke, and such. It's just too bad the fans have to be so hostile. You know, earlier I was just thinking about that "what if fans didn't care if their idols dated?" I honestly think that if for some reason, idols were allowed to date, the fans would probably be really pissed off, but eventually they would probably begrudgingly get over it because there would be no other choice. In my ideal world....

And Krusha, I didn't know that actually. I really wonder what sparked this hate for other idols, specifically AKB? On H!O, I feel the hostility between H!P and AKB fans, even those who are fans of both, can become quite strong, to the point where people start seeing insults where there are none and attempting to defend their favorite group by pointing out the flaws in the other group. It's very sad (and annoying) really. I wish that Ayumi could say "I like AKB" or "I don't think anything of AKB" or even "I hate AKB" (although that last one might be a bit harsh) without having to spark all this contempt. In my ideal world....again lol.

[sukibeam]

So, I saw this on youtube...

 

 

Did they make a CD of Japanese christmas songs? o.o 

(If so I need it )

 

Skipping through what I'm sure are numerous posts that are completely unrelated to what I came to the thread for (reading when MM would be on Shabekuri)

 

Hello Project released a seasonal series of children's songs back in the day called The Douyou Pops. There's one for each season, and even even a couple of later ones that aren't seasonal. I have all six if you cannot find them... just PM me or something.

[Krusha]

gwbiasaaja,

I said in a previous post here the following:

"It is only in the more recent years (the past 2-3 years) that there's been more splintering (Sasshii fans vs. Yuko fans, for example), and AKB48 fans vs. SKE48 fans, and similar, and this is manifesting on Western forums too, because a lot of young and new fans arriving to the scene aren't following with what was the so called established line of thinking from the past and onwards.

Thus you have more veteran fans in Japan lamenting the influx of so called "pinchike", which is an AKB48 term meaning "pink ticket", and that means when you go to the AKB48 theater to buy a ticket for the stage show, you get a pink ticket if you're a junior high / high school student, or so. And a lot of these fans are loud, obnoxious, annoying, and so on. Hence the negative term "pinchike"."

Which does mean that you get more of that stuff, especially in Western forums because a lot of the new fans that join the fandom are used to this sort of behaviour either through previous idol fandom (for example H!P), or just don't consider that this kind of behaviour is detrimental to the fandom as a whole regardless of where it comes from. And yes it also occurs more and more in Japan, so "in fights" are becoming common.

But no, the issue of MM members liking AKB members and being flamed for it by their fans, and AKB members liking MM members and not being flamed for it by their fans, is still the standard in Japan, so there's that.


moonxdark,

I really wonder what sparked this hate for other idols

Emotionality, attachment, irrational thinking, subjectivity, and so on. Instead of letting things be, people invest energy in creating something to hate, be it other groups, other idols, other forums, other users, etc.

But then this really isn't an idol fan problem either. It's just something that is brought up into the daylight so easily on the Internet vs. "real life". Because online you can be relatively anonymous, and say whatever you want without thinking that there are consequences of any kind, and so you just call someone an asshole without giving it a second thought, and so on it goes with everything. And it's not really conducive as far as thriving environments goes.

And not to be offensive, but it doesn't help that a lot of the Western idol fans are of a relatively young age. Being "rational" at that age or "thinking things through", on the Internet, behind a nickname, in a discussion with other people (about something you're really invested in) - equally if not more passionate about the same thing - with the temperature rising, really isn't easy... Heated discussions take place, and some people goes too far, and then all of a sudden it's a back and forth of this and that. But hey, it's not just young people. It's anybody really. Humans are humans. It's easy to get carried away.

For me, in terms of forums and fandom, or "online activity", I go by the saying "Less is more". This is pretty much the only forum I'm active on, and that means primarily the 48G subforum, which by comparison with other forums isn't very large. But I'm very content with that. Outside of the forum I have a handful of people online whom I talk to about these things, such as idols, and that too is something I'm very content with.

The core of my fandom isn't online forums, it's listening to the music of my favorite idols, watching their shows and concerts, and otherwise focusing on what they do. That's what I focus on.

[Vadros]

Has this been posted yet?

 

 

Masaki switched color? Zukki looking different. Dance outfits?

[Chimai]

I can vouch to being a victim of coming into a fandom knowing nothing and being "taught" to hate another group.

 

I first discovered H!P through C-ute 3 and a half years ago. Although I had loved Japanese music before, I mainly just focused on Utada Hikaru, BoA, and YUI. Somehow I stumbled across C-ute (still have no memory of how) and that led me to H!O and I realized how gigantic the Japanese music industry was. It was, well, a whole new world. If I remember correctly this was around the time AKB was being integrated into the forum, having their own sub-forums and later their own tracker and picboard spots. I was really curious about what "AKB48" was, the name was so unusual, but didn't look into them at all. It's quite funny, because when I first became a MM fan I remember defending AKB (who I didn't know at all) on the yui-lover forum because some YUI fans were bashing AKB because they appeared on the same music show and because Ponytail to Shushu's second week was the same as to Mother's first week and fans really wanted YUI to get #1 (which she did). I told them to knock it off and said that I wasn't an AKB fan but I was a Morning Musume fan and knew how it was to see people bash the group you like and such.

 

However, as my first few months on the forum went on, I began to harbor a strange dislike towards them... even though I hadn't heard a single song. I saw some other H!P fans act this way and it seemed it really influenced my opinion.

 

I remember watching the MM x AKB collab on 24 Hour Television with them singing Ghibli songs and sending my friend an angry e-mail saying AKB was nothing compared to MM, and many worse comments. Krusha, I remember you posted some SKE videos in the Morning Musume Ona to Otoko no Lullaby Game thread and I got very angry and ranted to my friend about it. I remember getting upset over seeing people switch to being AKB fans. I remember really not liking the only AKB video I had ever seen - Heavy Rotation. At one point I hated AKB for no reason other than I felt I should because some other H!P fans did. I was afraid to listen to AKB songs because I thought I might like them more than H!P and didn't want that to happen.

 

Then something changed. I can't remember exactly what started it but I began to soften towards AKB. Honestly, it might have simply been because I thought the covers for Sakura no Ki ni Narou were cute! I have no idea. But some time, about a year after first discovering idols, there was an argument about AKB vs. MM on this very thread. Someone posted the video of Kojiharu and Yukirin singing Koi ING at the Tokyo Aki Matsuri as well as a video of Miichan asking Kojiharu during Shoujiki Shougi if it is true that she would rather be in Morning Musume. This made my interest in AKB grow and I read their entire Wikipedia and Generasia articles to try and understand them. I still had listened to nothing but Heavy Rotation (and didn't even remember what the song sounded like) until one fateful trip to the Mall of America with my school choir when I picked up a copy of Kamikyokutachi on a whim.

 

I listened to the CD and the rest is history. Now I spend all my days watching AKBINGO! and reading Stage48 and making AKB GIFs and reblogging AKB stuff on tumblr.

 

tl;dr: I am scarily easy to influence.

 

It's probably my absolute worst quality, although I seem to have been successful in changing it these past years. I had similar instances years ago where I hated Hamasaki Ayumi because of what Utada Hikaru fans said about her--now she's one of my absolute favorite artists. I disliked SUPER GiRLS for a very short period of time because of a rude fan arguing with MM fans on an MM PV on YouTube.

 

Don't be like me.

 

Sorry for so much text.

 

Spoiler

Even underneath all my hatred there was something that absolutely intrigued me about AKB. After learning more about them it just grew, and there is some... spark they give off that made me so curious. I think this contributed to me being worried I would like them more than MM. I still remember telling a friend of mine (who I converted to a casual H!P fan) on my school trip when I bought the CD (and so did she!), "Yeah, they're really popular in Japan. Scarily popular. I know a little bit about how they work, they seem really cool..." and I realized that that was probably the first positive thing I had said about AKB48 in my life. That feeling of wonder and curiosity I got before becoming a fan is still with me today. I feel like I'll never know everything about the group. It's really quite a strange feeling that I don't know how to describe... but I love it.

 

EDIT: Dear God I hope those are the outfits for the 2nd song (or 2nd outfit for other song). The black-and-white outfits are so painfully boring. Those outfits remind me of Fairies for some reason. Love it!

[ergreenlimes]

^

^

I think Teal stuff is just hard to find, so I bet they just got Masaki a light blue shirt.

 

It's weird to see Mizuki in the middle and Sayumi and Ayumi off to the side

[Mirachiii]

Has this been posted yet?

 

 

Masaki switched color? Zukki looking different. Dance outfits?

 

WHERE DID THIS PHOTO COME FROM

 

so colourful :3

[number244]

Has this been posted yet?

 

 

Masaki switched color? Zukki looking different. Dance outfits?

Where is this from?

And, is that Masaki's and Sayu's heads in the bottom of the frame?

[sukibeam]

Based on hair styles, the bottom of the frame looks like Ayumi, OdaSaku, then possibly Honey.

[AdehhRR]

Reminds me of fairies too!

OMG ZUKKI!?

IS THAT YOU? 

[Vadros]

I found it on 2chan. It was on a thread about BLT  ranking different idol group members into best singers, dancers, variety potential etc. I have no idea if it's from the magazine or not. There was no source listed.

[sukibeam]

Ah, found a post about it on JPLOP (September issue of BLT magazine)

 

http://i.imgur.com/FyFdPu3.jpg

 

http://imgur.com/F3jB8f2

 

http://imgur.com/XbxrJCj

[number244]

All of hello! project is on this tumblr post http://dreamygirlkaw...hello-project-3

[NightOfFire’21]

They look awesome on those outfits!