55120 replies to this topic

[AmaSusE]

Maybe I should correct myself. To be more diplomatic, the thing that bothers me most is the ..uhm..."uncatchiness" of the song ...but this is something that can be solved over time

 

...of course it's hard to not have a biased opinion when you're not a fan of both.

[AitorKamei]

The "What do you think about AKB" was only a hint to attract audience, did you know?

[Mickey.]

I feel the same way. Of course, I expect the members to pick Momusu to be their #1. But it's unrealistic to think none of the MM girls are interested in other idol groups. And still the only answer we ever get is "I only pay attention to Momusu."
 
I think they'd actually be more respected/liked if they admitted to listening to AKB, E-girls, or MomoClo rather than dodge the question.

That has actually happened some years ago. With Sayumi admitting she was into AKB. It got her quite some sympathy points.

And we have a "former" convicted major AKB fan in the group right now..

[moonxdark'17]

The "What do you think about AKB" was only a hint to attract audience, did you know?

Most likely. I highly doubt the whole show will be them talking about AKB. Maybe they'll spend 1-2 minutes and then move onto a different topic. It's highly likely that Ayumi actually said more than just "we don't think anything about them, we're #1" but they edited it in a way to grab people's attention (well, it worked didn't it? ).

[Afya'15]

I think they should act more open about the diversity in music industry. They can say they are best but I hope they also say XX is good in acting or talking show we can learn more from them. Reina said she was impressed by other singers and want to improve. She also seems to be quite close to Scandal if I'm not mistaken. Gakisan also enjoys Kpop. It is quite neccessary to learn from others if they really want to success.

 

The "What do you think about AKB" was only a hint to attract audience, did you know?

Most likely. I highly doubt the whole show will be them talking about AKB. Maybe they'll spend 1-2 minutes and then move onto a different topic. It's highly likely that Ayumi actually said more than just "we don't think anything about them, we're #1" but they edited it in a way to grab people's attention (well, it worked didn't it? ).

 

 

Just like the show between AKB & H!P fans. The preview showed all the fierce comments but that's also all of them in the whole show. lol

[taylorniw]

They shy away from AKB48 in particular because it pisses fans off. Chisato got booed at a recent concert when she mentioned she did some of their songs in karaoke. I've seen them mention other idols pretty freely.

[Krusha]

What taylorniw says.

It's unfortunate, because it inhibits the girls. They shouldn't be that.

For example, I saw some pages back that some people were afraid AKB48 fans would now hate on Ayumi, for saying Morning Musume is #1 when asked what she thinks about AKB48.

What on earth for!? It's her personal taste, what of it? This is something that sits deep within H!P fandom, in particular in Japan, that the H!P idols somehow cannot enjoy their rivals. I don't know why it is like this, as it puzzles me, because with other idol groups, it really isn't like this. Especially within AKB48 and the other sister groups, you have a fair bunch of girls who are big, big idol fans, and I mean on the level of being a wota. Some non-AKB48 fans are pretty familiar with them now, such as Sasshii (MM: Eri + BKoubo: Yurina), and Yukirin (MM: Rika/Yossui). Others, perhaps more unknown, like Ayarin, used to run a H!P fansite before she herself became an idol. Then you have all the girls who auditioned for MM and HPKids, but never made it, yet now are in AKB48.

AKB48 fans do not hate the AKB48 girls for loving H!P girls for example, and during their Tokyo Aki Matsuri festival, AKB48 fans chanted and cheered to all the songs performed, including H!P songs. Nothing but love all the way.


(Kojiharu/Yukirin singing MM, and Kojiharu/Yuko singing GAM - all live.)


(Miichan and Sasshii, plus Ayaya! (1min. mark)... er, Shinobu-san, the 48G outfit designer, and caretaker)

anyways...

The girls all have different interests though.

Some like said, are big into idols. Other are deep into manga or anime. Some fashion, some pro wrestling, some have other interests again. Having mentioned some of the girls that love Morning Musume so much they could probably tattoo Morning Musume on their arms, then there's Suuchan, who auditioned for Morning Musume, but when asked recently on G+, what she thought about Morning Musume now, she just said she had no interest in them whatsoever. So you see, it varies.

And we as fans should try to respect that regardless of which girl it is from whatever group. Because we support them for the idol they are. Should Kanon, Chisato, Sayu, Eripon, etc. be chastized and burnt on the stake for enjoying other non-H!P idols? Absolutely not! Same for other idols, etc.


Jessie Asher,

Then again, I don't understand why people are praising any sort of anti-AKB sentiment, though. It's great to be competitive, especially since they're such sales rivals.

I'm not too sure they're sales rivals though. 1,950,000 vs. 100,000 is quite a bit of a difference. I do agree with the rest you said, about not getting worked up about music, treating it as politics, etc.

Finally, as for the comparison video with MM/AKB48/MCZ, it's very limited.

The selection is poor, and there are many more songs where AKB48 sings live and sounds much better. However, Morning Musume and AKB48 just has a different style as one group focuses more or less solely on solo-lines, whereas another group does not. To add, they sing differently, since they have different vocal coaches who obviously employs different techniques and styles. So it's just different.

Perhaps it's better to compare MM with MCZ in this regards. Here I would say that MM sings better live than MCZ, much better. But MCZ isn't so much about singing when it comes to concerts, it's all about the hype, the buzz, and the energy.

So going back to what Ayumi said, Morning Musume is #1 in her heart, as it should be.

Her answer shows she is passionate about her group. But if she had said that Morning Musume is #1, but she also loves AKB48 songs, would that have pissed off Morning Musume fans? I'm afraid I could find that very likely, which is just sad. Could H!P one day perform other jpop songs, including idol pop songs, for example AKB48 songs, in front of their own fans, without getting booed?

[ShiningLight445]

 

The "What do you think about AKB" was only a hint to attract audience, did you know?

Most likely. I highly doubt the whole show will be them talking about AKB. Maybe they'll spend 1-2 minutes and then move onto a different topic. It's highly likely that Ayumi actually said more than just "we don't think anything about them, we're #1" but they edited it in a way to grab people's attention (well, it worked didn't it? ).

 

 

My thoughts as well. Probably like a segment about 5 minutes or so.  and used the line "what do you think about AKB" just to make people wanna watch the episode.

[Trania]

Perhaps it's better to compare MM with MCZ in this regards. 

 

You got me confused there for a moment. MCZ are my initials.   

[Krusha]

Trania,

[Gakisan <3]

For example, I saw some pages back that some people were afraid AKB48 fans would now hate on Ayumi, for saying Morning Musume is #1 when asked what she thinks about AKB48.

What on earth for!? It's her personal taste, what of it?

 

I think it was more of just a translation problem.

The translation given of Ayumi's response was [in reference to AKB] "I don't think something about them. Morning Musume is the nº1"

 

When read in English, it can give off a bad vibe. It seems likes she's saying "Morning Musume is the best, so other idol groups are not worthy of my interest." or at least, that's how I took it.

 

But from watching the preview, anyone can see Ayumin meant no ill will. Just a misinterpretation from Japanese -> English.

 

People were worried about MM coming off as cocky or overconfident to other idol fans claiming they were #1.

[JennyInTokyo]

Morning Musume related and I thought this gif would make people giggle  

[Pistolero]

Trailers can be quite deceiving from time to time. I think it's better to wait for the actual show.(and even the actual show can become victim of editting)

 

edit: realized that Akiyama will show up. I always remember when he and Sayu were on that 10,000 yen challenge....

[kantutanTayo14]

AKB48 fans do not hate the AKB48 girls for loving H!P girls for example, and during their Tokyo Aki Matsuri festival, AKB48 fans chanted and cheered to all the songs performed, including H!P songs. Nothing but love all the way.

That wasn't recent.

 

Is this still the case in Japanese 2ch?

 

As I remember, an incident of akb fan putting akb48 decals on h!p shopfront's signage was more recent than the Tokyo Aki Matsuri festival (though it should be nothing more than a harmless prank)

[JennyInTokyo]

I don't see the problem in an idol expressing that she likes otheri idol groups, it doesn't mean that she dislikes the idol group she's in, it just shows she has interests in other groups as a listener. It is a shame H!P kind of isolate the girls to not express their love for other idol groups.

[Krusha]

AKB48 fans do not hate the AKB48 girls for loving H!P girls for example, and during their Tokyo Aki Matsuri festival, AKB48 fans chanted and cheered to all the songs performed, including H!P songs. Nothing but love all the way.

That wasn't recent.
 
Is this still the case in Japanese 2ch?
 
As I remember, an incident of akb fan putting akb48 decals on h!p shopfront's signage was more recent than the Tokyo Aki Matsuri festival (though it should be nothing more than a harmless prank)

No, it wasn't recent.

But it's the same trend that has always been there. You have the 48 girls confessing their love for this or that such as idols or something else, and it emphatically does not cause a scene, the way it does in H!P if Kanon says she loves AKB48, or similar.

And don't equate 2ch with entire fanbase. That's just 1 BBS (with many diverse forums) on the Internet. Although yes of course it's representative as it too is part of the entire fan-sphere.

As for the stickers, you are somewhat incorrect. It happened years and years ago, and it was the work of 1 individual, from another Western fan-forum, who plastered 3 small square "AKB48" stickers in the top corner of the then H!P shop (it closed down some years ago). It indeed was a harmless prank from his side, as he so confessed later on.

[moonxdark'17]

I don't see the problem in an idol expressing that she likes otheri idol groups, it doesn't mean that she dislikes the idol group she's in, it just shows she has interests in other groups as a listener. It is a shame H!P kind of isolate the girls to not express their love for other idol groups.

I think the specific issue with MM lies with the fans feeling "threatened" by AKB. Probably a lot of the fans have been around since the early days when Momusu was the top idol group in Japan, and those fans harbor animosity towards AKB for "stealing" Momusu's position (not saying I agree with it), so any mention of AKB in a positive light would be, to those fans, like a stab in the back. Newer fans who might not think that way likely conform to that thinking and it becomes an unfortunate cycle. Since idols are built on a foundation of catering to fans, if something makes fans mad, then management is going to prohibit it. Is it stupid? Yes. Is it immature? Yes. But that's the way it is. It's the same reason idols have the no dating rule. But again, from that short preview we really can't know what exactly was said in response to that question.

Btw, that gif is hilariously awesome. Did you make it?

 

Edit: ^ It would be a foreign fan.

[Blu-Cherri]

I love seeing idols interact with each other, especially when they fangirl over each other, it's so cute seeing them get all excited.

But seeing Ayumin looking all determined was cool too(clearly no ill will, just being determined). 

 

Also, if I'm honest I think Ikuta oshi-hen'd(switched oshi) from Yuko to Gaki-san considering everything we've seen, so she might not mention it like that on the show.

[Krusha]

moonxdark,

You might be aware of this or not, but H!P fans were quite aggressive in their hate towards AKB48 way, way before AKB48 even had any success at all. So it didn't start with them becoming popular, it was from like day 1. And so I guess when AKB48 finally did become popular, it really upset these people, because perhaps for some reason they had never expected that this would happen, and so it just angered them even more. And then when "their own idols" actually states that they like AKB48, they react with utter immaturity.

Well, I don't know why these specific things happen. It's so stupid.

But, you mention something very, very important. That new fans conform to the same line of thinking. And when it comes to international H!P fandom, a lot of the sources are Japanese boards, in particular the morningcoffee board at 2ch. Many people back in the days as far as I can remember, followed topics there, and you could see that people definitely became influenced. What Japanese people online thought, Western fans started doing as well.

And that's where it gets really, really dangerous: Western fans adopting same attitude where H!P fans fight amongst each other, group vs. group, girl vs. girl - fans being very aggressive towards each other, hating on girls within the family of idols they say they love. This doesn't make sense at all. You'd expect them to like and respect all the girls of H!P, but no. This was something that continued year in year out, and new fans started adopting this same behaviour.

With AKB48, a lot of the fans that became fans of AKB48 were sort of veteran fans already (the Japanese ones, and the Western ones). They've been around the block so to speak. Of course there were new fans too. But what was remarkable, was that this in-group fandom-fighting didn't exist in the AKB48 world. Likewise the fans allowing "their idols" to love any other idol they might like freely, without criticizing them or hating them. So things developed differently. It wasn't as splintered.

And again as you said, newer fans conform to the line of thinking that already exists, so Japanese fans entering the fandom started behaving the same way, and likewise so with Western fans. A great deal more unity.

It is only in the more recent years (the past 2-3 years) that there's been more splintering (Sasshii fans vs. Yuko fans, for example), and AKB48 fans vs. SKE48 fans, and similar, and this is manifesting on Western forums too, because a lot of young and new fans arriving to the scene aren't following with what was the so called established line of thinking from the past and onwards.

Thus you have more veteran fans in Japan lamenting the influx of so called "pinchike", which is an AKB48 term meaning "pink ticket", and that means when you go to the AKB48 theater to buy a ticket for the stage show, you get a pink ticket if you're a junior high / high school student, or so. And a lot of these fans are loud, obnoxious, annoying, and so on. Hence the negative term "pinchike".

When your group of fans is small, it's easier to have the same line of thinking, because being smaller in size means less popularity, and fewer fans - but when you grow into a gigantic social movement very quickly, you gain a massive sea of fans too quick - for the process of "everybody" adopting the same ways. It's just too hard. So, it's bound to become splintered.

UFA has a group of fans who behave in a particular way, and they try to cater to them as best as they can do (or so one supposes). If they all rage whenever they hear the name AKB48, it's only logical that they try to keep those moments to a bare minimum.

It's an interesting topic for sure, fan culture, and how it develops

[Gakisan <3]

How did this discussion turn into a lecture about how AKB has more tolerant fans than HP?

 

Both groups have fans that are crazy competitive and overprotective. It's not really like one group of crazy is more prominent than the other.

Anyways, I would say a good majority of wota have no problem if their oshi is interested in other idols, so it's not really the fans that are keeping the girls from interacting.