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#1 ZealVD

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 04:57 PM

Okay don't hit me or nufinc.... I'm new to the site ;-) and I've looked around a bit and couldn't find anything.

Anyhoo... I've been downing quite a few things... (didn't actually realise until i looked at my download quota!)... Now, some of the stuff that I've downed don't have subtitles... As much as I'm happy to watch and try and guess what's going on (i'm thinking that I should just take up japanese!) and I was wondering if anyone knows if there is already a section, or a reason as to why it's not a section, wher subtitles are uploaded seperate to the file themselves.

Such as a .srt file

This could even kind of be a sudgestion type thing. This would mean that if a .srt file is uploaded at a later date you don't have to download the same thing twice just because one has hard-coded subs. .srt files end up being around 70kb for a 2hr movie (it's kind of just like a text based file) which most video players can automaticaly add into the video and if it doesn't do it automatically you can tell the player to use it manually.

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#2 jarkza

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 09:58 PM

HPS doesn't give away .srts because there are some mean people in this world that like to sell stuff in ebay as their own... And HPS doesn't like that kind of people because it was them who spent hours and hours of their own time to supply us with the great subbed H!P files.

#3 SacredCultivator

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 11:57 PM

Hehe yeah... As a hardsubber myself, I don't necessarily like handing out .srts unless of course the team I work with allows them... But in most cases most groups don't release softsubs if there are hardsubbed copies... A few groups will of course but then again that is just some.... Knowing HPS for sure they would not distribute their .srts for their subs which is completely understandable.

EDIT: Adding on... Hehe... And the whole 'downloading' multiple times... One should sort of understand if you get the raw you are sort of stuck with it unless you know a group is going to provide softsubs (Which isn't always certain) therefore I generally just download the RAWS of what i think will be good but wouldn't need subs... And just hope for the things I want subbed, those will be provided someday or another such as Utaban Episodes.

@Jarkza: Hardsubs get sold to... Sadly I found our subbed episodes of 1 Litre of Tears (Kioku) being ebayed off without proper credits and they even modified it (Making widescreen) which is like oMG...

PS: Hehe I am sure many of the users on this board know what softsubs(.srt/.ssa/.etc) are =)

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#4 Danji

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 02:42 AM

Okay don't hit me or nufinc.... I'm new to the site ;-) and I've looked around a bit and couldn't find anything.

Anyhoo... I've been downing quite a few things... (didn't actually realise until i looked at my download quota!)... Now, some of the stuff that I've downed don't have subtitles... As much as I'm happy to watch and try and guess what's going on (i'm thinking that I should just take up japanese!) and I was wondering if anyone knows if there is already a section, or a reason as to why it's not a section, wher subtitles are uploaded seperate to the file themselves.

Such as a .srt file

This could even kind of be a sudgestion type thing. This would mean that if a .srt file is uploaded at a later date you don't have to download the same thing twice just because one has hard-coded subs. .srt files end up being around 70kb for a 2hr movie (it's kind of just like a text based file) which most video players can automaticaly add into the video and if it doesn't do it automatically you can tell the player to use it manually.

Cheers!
Zeal


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Agreed.


Hehe yeah... As a hardsubber myself, I don't necessarily like handing out .srts unless of course the team I work with allows them... But in most cases most groups don't release softsubs if there are hardsubbed copies... A few groups will of course but then again that is just some.... Knowing HPS for sure they would not distribute their .srts for their subs which is completely understandable.

EDIT: Adding on... Hehe... And the whole 'downloading' multiple times... One should sort of understand if you get the raw you are sort of stuck with it unless you know a group is going to provide softsubs (Which isn't always certain) therefore I generally just download the RAWS of what i think will be good but wouldn't need subs... And just hope for the things I want subbed, those will be provided someday or another such as Utaban Episodes.

@Jarkza: Hardsubs get sold to... Sadly I found our subbed episodes of 1 Litre of Tears (Kioku) being ebayed off without proper credits and they even modified it (Making widescreen) which is like oMG...

PS: Hehe I am sure many of the users on this board know what softsubs(.srt/.ssa/.etc) are =)



As a subber myself I very much do prefer softsubbs. This comes from my desire to edit things to make a bit more sense in English as well as six any gramatical or spelling mistakes which may and often do occur. Now HPS is a great group and they do some of the best subbing quality on the net for any genre or topic, but things slip through everyone's cracks, and re-releasing for a minor grammatical or spelling error is hardly economical for time and effort.

However, I can understand having one's efforts being mis-utilized for someone elses gain may be a pain in the ass, but the ability for the subs to be translated to other languages or edited by end viewers weighs heavy on my mind. I always prefer to have the flexibility to edit. Which is probably why I am always the 'editor' in any sub group I'm with. :noo:
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#5 SacredCultivator

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 02:47 AM

@Danji: Understandable and as an Editor myself,

Quoted from Danji:
"'This comes from my desire to edit things to make a bit more sense in English as well as six any gramatical or spelling mistakes which may and often do occur.'"
Hheeh six -> fix.


But anyway... Yeah if a little mistake slips by which happens a lot, if it is minor that should be okay for not doing another release because we are only human, can't be perfect, just what seems to be so *shrug*... As for translating to other languages.. one can just well watch and translate.

Hehe but many would agree with you by means of flexibility of softsubs, but again it is because of that that it is easy to just market off or edit and label it as your own work.

Hello!Fansubs is recruiting Translators and Karaoke-Typesetters, PM if interested.
OR if you need my assistance in fansubbing (QC/Encoding), let me know.

#6 ZealVD

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 07:32 AM

there are some mean people in this world that like to sell stuff in ebay as their own...


Yeah i know what that's like... but I kinda find it amusing and laugh... coz that means that I've done a good job or something. Although trying to sell a 1024x768 desktop image of something is a little easier to laugh at when someone tries to rip you off by saying "original postcard signed by xxx"



One should sort of understand if you get the raw you are sort of stuck with it unless you know a group is going to provide softsubs


It's not about understanding... it's about being impatient :-) I NEED MY YOSSI FIX NOW NOW NOW! *LOL*

#7 Danji

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 09:05 AM

@Danji: Understandable and as an Editor myself,

Quoted from Danji:
"'This comes from my desire to edit things to make a bit more sense in English as well as six any gramatical or spelling mistakes which may and often do occur.'"
Hheeh six -> fix.


But anyway... Yeah if a little mistake slips by which happens a lot, if it is minor that should be okay for not doing another release because we are only human, can't be perfect, just what seems to be so *shrug*... As for translating to other languages.. one can just well watch and translate.

Hehe but many would agree with you by means of flexibility of softsubs, but again it is because of that that it is easy to just market off or edit and label it as your own work.



I understand. And I wish there were a legal recourse fansub groups could take. But frankly we're already in a legal grey area. At least the people marketing it off can be turned in as pirates because the content is not licensed for purchase outside of Japan and 'specific' other markets (China/Korea I believe).

Giving the content away for free has no real legal recourse...
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#8 DrWorm

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 12:00 AM

HPS does not give out its scripts, whether it is in it's original form or as a .srt file. This is done for many reasons, including preventing people from attributing it as their own work.

The main reason is that it gives us control over our final output. While HPS does stay away from using fancy effects, we do pay attention to the font, size, and formatting of the subtitles. Much of this could be lost if we were to supply a .srt file, as 1) the format wouldn't allow it, or 2) different programs have different ways of displaying the subtitles. In fact, not all media players and all OSes are capable of playing the subtitle files. So by hard subbing, and encoding in XviD for video and MP3 for audio, we are able to reach the largest audience with the littlest amount of problems.

As for having to redownload files, many of our sources were not previously available. Sometimes we find a new higher quality source, and sometimes we have to make a new source (I've personally had to piece together a couple Utaban episodes from multiple sources).

#9 Danji

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 06:13 AM

HPS does not give out its scripts, whether it is in it's original form or as a .srt file. This is done for many reasons, including preventing people from attributing it as their own work.

The main reason is that it gives us control over our final output. While HPS does stay away from using fancy effects, we do pay attention to the font, size, and formatting of the subtitles. Much of this could be lost if we were to supply a .srt file, as 1) the format wouldn't allow it, or 2) different programs have different ways of displaying the subtitles. In fact, not all media players and all OSes are capable of playing the subtitle files. So by hard subbing, and encoding in XviD for video and MP3 for audio, we are able to reach the largest audience with the littlest amount of problems.


I can understand your reasoning. It won't kleep me from griping about it though. :P Please don't let that make me seem ungrateful. I am very grateful for the work you and the rest of the HPS crew put into properly translating so much stuff. Most sub groups only have to deal with a single standard show ranging from thirty minutes to sixty or perhaps a feature length film... but HPS does many different shows with amny styles and formats which is a tough job, and one which shouldn't be underestimated.

But I do have the ability to say what I feel, and I feel that srt files are wonderful. :)

As for having to redownload files, many of our sources were not previously available. Sometimes we find a new higher quality source, and sometimes we have to make a new source (I've personally had to piece together a couple Utaban episodes from multiple sources).


Ouch. That had to suck hard! <3
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#10 ZealVD

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 08:42 AM

sOooooOOooooooOOOOoOOooOoooo Soft-Subs are fine.... If it was possible that they were un-etiable.... hrmm..... it'd be possible... but how to do it... hrmmm...


See... it's not actually hard to remove credit from hard-subs... just VERY time consuing... having to do it frame by frame... then again... i can think of a few ways that it's possible in a very easy way (and hardly any time required). I really shouldn't be giving ppl ideas :P

#11 SacredCultivator

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 02:56 PM

@ZealVD: You really shouldn't have said that.. And also by removing the credits you also rid parts of the video (Depending on where they decided to input the credits) In terms of it they put it in the credits then yes you can easily remove that without fear of losing any of the actual content... But ehhh yeah... not too sure why you brought that up...
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#12 Danji

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 03:54 PM

sOooooOOooooooOOOOoOOooOoooo Soft-Subs are fine.... If it was possible that they were un-etiable.... hrmm..... it'd be possible... but how to do it... hrmmm...


See... it's not actually hard to remove credit from hard-subs... just VERY time consuing... having to do it frame by frame... then again... i can think of a few ways that it's possible in a very easy way (and hardly any time required). I really shouldn't be giving ppl ideas ^_^



The problem you would run into with soft-subs when attempting to lock or password the files is that there's no way that any encryption or protection would really keep out someone determined to break the system. And with the way the open source software community is, I'd be surprised if it didn't crack it very quickly anyway.
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#13 ZealVD

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 04:56 PM

But ehhh yeah... not too sure why you brought that up...


Because the current debate is on the fact that soft-subs aren't generally liked because of the fact that they can be easily edited to be deemed as someone else's credit. The fact that it's possible to actually do that with video as well kinda makes the "debate" fall down in that respect. I'm not going to go into debth of how because I can get myself into some SERIOUS issues (which i probably have already gotten myself into) but in any instance if someone really wants to do something NOTHING stops them from doing it.

The problem you would run into with soft-subs when attempting to lock or password the files is that there's no way that any encryption or protection would really keep out someone determined to break the system. And with the way the open source software community is, I'd be surprised if it didn't crack it very quickly anyway.


Yeah that's thinking on a different path to my thinking. My thinking is more along programming/encoding (not that i know much about programming currently), which would then lean towards a new file extention type subject... but it's only a thought... and more than likely with the structure i'm thinking it would be possible to have a type of "soft-sub" which is downloadable as a seperate file and un-editable once it a finalized subtitle file.

#14 Danji

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 05:02 PM

But ehhh yeah... not too sure why you brought that up...


Because the current debate is on the fact that soft-subs aren't generally liked because of the fact that they can be easily edited to be deemed as someone else's credit. The fact that it's possible to actually do that with video as well kinda makes the "debate" fall down in that respect. I'm not going to go into debth of how because I can get myself into some SERIOUS issues (which i probably have already gotten myself into) but in any instance if someone really wants to do something NOTHING stops them from doing it.

The problem you would run into with soft-subs when attempting to lock or password the files is that there's no way that any encryption or protection would really keep out someone determined to break the system. And with the way the open source software community is, I'd be surprised if it didn't crack it very quickly anyway.


Yeah that's thinking on a different path to my thinking. My thinking is more along programming/encoding (not that i know much about programming currently), which would then lean towards a new file extention type subject... but it's only a thought... and more than likely with the structure i'm thinking it would be possible to have a type of "soft-sub" which is downloadable as a seperate file and un-editable once it a finalized subtitle file.



As a software developer I can think of ways to implement the support for such a filetype, but couldn't do the encryption/decryption portion of the process as it's not my specialty. You're right that it would indeed require an additional filetype. Most SoftSub files are just XLM or plaintext which makes things easy accross multiple platforms by all kinds of different users. Encryption placed on one of those formats would be both unweildy and easy to break. You would need a completely new, and completely proprietary SoftSub file format.

But the encryption itself is a violation of why "I" want the softsub files in the first place. ^_^
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