36 replies to this topic

[☆RisaReinaSayu☆]

I couldn't find a thread for WWE/WWF so I decided to make one. This thread as the title states is for general discussion over WWE/WWF. Feel free to rant about anything you like or dislike about WWE/WWF now or anything you used to like or dislike about it. Feel free to use this thread to vent over any frustrations you might have over the product as well.

I started watching WWE way back when it was still WWF and for the most part I haven't stopped. However, I'm pretty unhappy with the current product. I hate how they're using their veterans as glorified jobbers. I hate how much they shove the recent NXT call-ups down the fans' throats instead of letting them get over naturally. Fin Ballor came up to the main roster and got added to the Universal Title picture pretty much overnight. Charlotte, Sasha, Becky, and Bailey may be great in the ring, but by god they're boring on the mic and I'm much more interested in the girls WWE isn't showcasing than I am in Charlotte and Sasha feuding into next year with Bailey and Dana struggling to work their way into their equation on Raw; and definitely have no interest in a Becky dominated women's division on Smackdown. Then there's the predictability of it all.

They shoved Kevin Owens down our throats immediately when he came up from NXT, why would Sami Zayne and Fin Ballor getting the same treatment be a big surprise. They shoved Paige down our throats for most of 2014 after having her make then Divas Champion AJ Lee look like a bloody joke and in 2015 she was the one who pursued taking the Divas title from Nikki Bella the most so she was regularly in our faces for most of that year as well. It was really only a matter of time before more NXT girls got called up and shoved down our throats, but there was so much potential for veterans like Natalya, Alicia Fox and Naomi to be given a chance to shine upon those girls getting called up.

H-e-c-k, Nikki Bella had a 300+ day Divas Champion run that was full of in ring improvement and some great mic work on her part; not to mention the Summerslam 2014 match between Nikki's sister Brie and Stephanie McMahon was a thing of beauty and made it clear that Stephanie would be a better Women's Champion now than she ever was way back when if she so decided to become an active wrestler. I don't understand why they have so many of their female superstars sitting in the locker room twiddling their thumbs or why we need to see repeats of matches between the same ones. I know I'm not alone in this because social media blew up with the hashtag #GiveSummerAChance recently.

Additionally I miss the more comedic moments of Raw and Smackdown, you know the ones, those moments that don't make any sense and are so bad and pointless that they're almost good and love them or hate them they still make you laugh because 'WTF is going on?/WTF did I just watch?' - the shows are too serious for my taste at this point and that makes me treasure the New Day segments ten times more than usual. I really hope WWE doesn't get any ideas about making them lose their titles to one of the other teams on Raw and phasing them out until at least Wrestlemania 33. I don't think I'll be able to sit through Raw in real time if they do. Speaking of Raw, they need to figure out what to do with the first half hour. Enzo and Cass can be fun at times, but they're essentially playing the same role as Triple H and Stephanie did during their lengthy run as The Authority and at least with The Authority guys could drool over Stephanie and girls over Triple H or if you're like me, you would actually enjoy them running their mouths and abusing their power because Heels (especially natural ones like these two) are awesome!

[Recognizer]

I miss CM Punk and original Sin Cara the most, they were funny to watch. At least the old man Danny Brian is back, maybe he'll start performing one day again.

[☆RisaReinaSayu☆]

^I think Daniel Bryan will probably wrestle part time again between now and when his contract with the company expires, but he's doing a nice enough job as Smackdown General Manager. I never really cared for CM Punk, but he had it going on and he was definitely a big asset and loss for the company.

[JennyInTokyo]

I was a big fan of WWE! I started watching it shortly after Eddie Guerrero died (RIP) and I watched it until around 2008-9! I guess I grew out of it because I was a teen then! I think I stopped liking it a little while after Trish Stratus left because she was my all time favourite diva alongside Mickie James! I also loved Rey Mystero and Batista among many others! I miss DX as well! A lot of the old names I loved are now gone, so I don't have much interest in WWE anymore.

[akb48princess13]

yes finally a wwe thread i love wwe i've been watching since i was 7 my favorite wrestlers are nikki bella.sasha banks,bayley,alexa bliss,carmella,john cena,randy orton and  i could go on

[phoenix00]

I should get to watching Backlash, but asides from that what are your reactions to the "brand extension"?  NXT, which was my favorite "brand", got gutted by the draft but I know that only creates more opportunities for other currently-unknown guys to make names for themselves.  And if anyone deserves a promotion to the main roster(s) it's Finn Balor.

 

Loving the CWC as well.  God damn I missed the cruiserweights.

[☆RisaReinaSayu☆]

^Can I ask you something about Fin Ballor; since you seem to be a big fan and probably know more about him than I do, can you explain to me what the big deal is about his Demon King persona/character? He's built like a mid-carder or a Bret Hart/HBK/Edge/Christian type of main-eventer at best with height closer to Daniel Brian, but they've given him this secondary persona/character of a scary boogeyman type demon who'll eat your dreams while you sleep. When I saw him do his Demon King entrance on Raw I stared wide-eyed, because I was so baffled by it. He doesn't look scary at all. What he looks like is a bad compilation of elements from The Boogeyman (Martin Wright), The Undertaker (Mark Callaway), & (Demon) Kane's (Glenn Jacobs) personas/characters. Underneath all the body paint and the attire is a skinny man who's rather short/average in height, whom usually has the cameramen focusing in on his crotch. The music for the entrance isn't bad, but beyond that the gimmick is IMHO very much a failure. Like I said I don't understand this aspect of Fin Ballor's appeal, so if you do please kindly enlighten me. Anyone else who gets it and cares enough to explain, feel free I'm all ears.

[Snipey]

^ He's no Jeff Hardy, that much I can say. I mean to me he's only got that gimmick going, though I did enjoy when he first joined NXT. But I feel like the direction they have given him in RAW has gone the wrong way. I would have had him dress up as the "demon" persona on the actual PPV rather than a week before on RAW as it didn't leave much of an impression during the actual PPV match.

Btw guys, do you think the shield will make a return now that Seth is getting done over by HHH and Dean lost the title...I smell something fishy.

 

 

I've been a big wrestling fan back since 1997, and then I kind of lost my love for it with Eddie and Chris Benoit's death (yes I know the latter was a different situation but CB was an awesome wrestler.) Kurt Angle leaving really did it for me and so I was watching it on and off, and it wasn't until the rock came back and then we had the shield is when I started watching it again.

 

About the Bella twins, I don't really enjoy their promotions or their wrestling. To me they should just be models, and the whole 300+ diva champion thing was only a way so they could get AJ Lee out of the history books because of the whole CM Punk fiasco.

 

As someone who was a big fan of the attitude era, they sure did have their wacky, fun and hilarious moments. It was so hardcore back then and anything was said and done, and nowadays I feel like Enzo and Cass are trying to do that all over again--- but they seem so rigid. I mean the first time they came out I thought wow these guys are funny, but now they just seem so stiff and just look like bad actors who have rehearsed something over and over again but still sound so monotonous. It all just seems like an act (which it is ) but it doesn't seem to flow out naturally to say how the New Day presents themselves or even Seth Rollins.

 

I have just rambled about pretty much anything and everything on my mind so if it doesn't make sense, excuse me.

[phoenix00]

^^ It's a play off Finn's Irish heritage. 

http://www.dailymoti...ug-8-2016_sport

 

As for how effective his act is, you've put more braincells to it than me all I know is he can Bring It in the ring.  He beat Seth Rollins for the Universal Championship with a dislocated right arm he *popped back into his socket during the PPV match*.  If that doesn't earn mad respect (don't forget his IWGP Junior Heavyweight and NXT Championship reigns) I don't know what does.

 

^ that's completely fair.  I have fond memories of the Attitude Era too!  The Monday Night Wars, Stone Cold vs Vince McMahon, DeGeneration X, the Nation of Domination, Undertaker & Kane, Lita vs Trish Stratus, and yes lying-cheating-stealing Eddie Guerrero and rabid wolverine Chris Benoit too!

 

At the same time I find it really hard to compare today to back then.  So much has changed.......

 

The Bella twins aside, I do like the new crop of women.  The womens division reminds me quite a bit of the Attitude Era, esp the storylines & range of personalities.  Charlotte plays the perfect sh--heel and who doesn't love Bayley and Sasha Banks?

 

Spoiler

And thanks for spoiling Backlash for me I better go watch that posthaste!

[☆RisaReinaSayu☆]

@Snipey - I used to consider the Bella Twins as just there for the sake of being there, but in 2014 things changed. The storylines for them actually got some effort put into them and they started to show a side of them in the ring that they'd never shown before. I started to gain some respect for them and even became curious about Total Divas. I know that Nikki's 300+ day reign as Divas Champion was mainly a result of backstage politics because she's dating John Cena and because certain people in charge have a vendetta against CM Punk and by extension his wife. However if I start dismissing title reigns because of backstage politics and vendettas I'd have to dismiss a whole lot of the title reigns I've enjoyed over the years (including Charlotte and Sasha's reigns since one has Ric Flair to play backstage politics for her, and one has Snoop Dog or whatever her famous celebrity cousin's name is these days, I'd even have to dismiss Paige's because of the possible power her mother might hold even though she never worked for WWE).

Watching Nikki's growth over the course of that reign, always fearing that they'd pull the trigger and have her drop it to someone soon it left me with many moments where my respect grew greater and greater and by the time they brought Charlotte, Sasha, & Becky up I was legitimately fond of Nikki Bella and wanted her to feud with each of them in a one on one story before dropping the title to one of them. I even had hopes that they'd change the Divas title into the Womens title while she was still champion because she truly became the example for everyone singing praises at NXT's women that the women on the main roster could do all of that great stuff too if they were just given the chance. As far as Brie goes, her feud with Stephanie was the best she ever got and I will remember it fondly well into the future. That feud caused a lot of positive buzz for a reason, it was the best feud for women on the main roster in years.

As far as Fin Ballor's "Demon King" entrance goes I doubt the effect would be any different no matter when they'd debuted it. You've seen it once you've seen it a million times. It's just not doing what its supposed to do, inflicting fear on his opponent and the crowd making his opponent second guess himself "do I really want to get into a battle with this guy?", Undertaker's been doing his classic entrance for most of his career (Biker 'Taker why did you have to exist?), and its never lost its spark. When that first bell/gong goes off you know exactly who and what is coming at the poor unfortunate soul or souls in the ring. So yeah...good luck with this persona Finn. Moving on to Eddie G. & Chris Benoit, I liked them both, but I've surprisingly not missed them much over the years. I miss Kurt Angle though. He's rumored to return at some point, with talks already in progress between him and higher ups backstage, but I figure WWE will just use him to put over the younger talents like they're doing with most of their veterans right now so I already know I'm not going to enjoy his return. Regarding the Shield, I'd say that if the marks on WhatCulture are talking about them reuniting then it will happen eventually, and quite possibly sooner rather than later.

@phoenix00 - ^Interesting. At least now I know it's not something they just decided to give him for the sake of boosting him up into the cool and mystifying category. From the match he put on with Seth I'd say Fin doesn't really need it. I would just want him to work on his mic skills some more because he's pretty green in that area. I look forward to him healing beautifully and putting on more great matches. Regarding the women, I feel so very alone as I don't think of Charlotte, Becky, Sasha, and Bailey as 'all that' / 'the future of womens wrestling' at all. I think they're much better than most of the women WWE has signed in the past as far as the wrestling itself is concerned, but they have work to do if they're going to bring a full package to the table and for the time being I'd say I'd prefer to watch a bra and panties match between two women feuding over something stupid like a guy who's cheating on both of them but they somehow turn their aggression on each other instead of him or even over stolen jewelry/a shampoo bottle's contents swapped with shaving cream mean girl style prank that incensed the humiliated woman to the point of a backstage brawl that would eventually be broken up and they'd then be told to settle (their differences) in the ring, than I would anything with the four horsewomen of NXT.

Back in the day a lot of the women couldn't wrestle their way out of a paper bag, but they still somehow ended up being more memorable than any of these upstart NXT call-ups have. This is coming from a girl, who should by all means be offended that WWE treated their women the way they did, but is not. You know there's something wrong if even a female is saying something like this. WWE did the brand split and turned into NXT and IWC marks pandering. Ratings have been dropping instead of improving, that pretty much says it all. I think the people in charge need to take back the reigns over their company and stop listening to fans to such a high extent. What is the point of watching wrestling if you know what's going to happen? We shouldn't be able ask for them do stuff and receive exactly that every single time. I'm gonna stop here, because at this point I'm just ranting stuff that falls outside the spectrum of my responses to you two. Sorry I got carried away.

[phoenix00]

^ lol all valid opinions.

 

First off the ratings will never be at the level they where during the Attitude Era imho.  The hype, the personalities, The Show, and the media attention back then was all unprecedented, I don't think that will ever happen again.

 

At the same time, I don't think that's the end of the story either - I think WWE is now attracting a different kind of fan. 

 

My opinion which I can't really back up so

Spoiler

I've noticed that the storylines are increasingly focusing on the fights themselves, and letting the guys/gals fight it out in the ring.  Maybe they've taken pages out of WFC/MMA? Who knows....

 

As far as the women goes, ahh the B&P matches..... somehow I don't think Becky Lynch (SD Women's Champ!) or Nia Jax will be doing one of those anytime soon.  I would, however, like to see Alexa Bliss in one just to see the level of smug discomfort on her face....

 

Lastly, I just got my internet back so I'm gonna quickly finish Backlash.  I'm digging the The Miz/Daniel Brian feud, that might be my favorite single storyline right now.  Maybe because it's a logical place to take The Miz's character?  Maybe because he puts his entire acting chops into it?  Maybe because he's making Daniel Brian look like his gonads shrunk 4 sizes in the course of one interview?

 

Lastly lastly: TJP is Cruiserweight Champ!  Dab on!

[☆RisaReinaSayu☆]

^The thing about the ratings is the return of the brand split was what fans asked for, for years now and with all the fan pandering they're doing since it came back you'd think ratings would improve at least on some level and stabilize in a higher range than they'd been at before hand, but instead Raw and Smackdown each had some good weeks and now both shows have started to go down. The fickle nature of the WWE Universe might be the main culprit here as RAW has never made a dip like the one last week in the past even with Football to compete with and I read somewhere that even the monumental mess that was the July 4th edition of RAW hadn't drawn ratings so low. Whatever it is that's causing these gradual record setting drops it definitely doesn't bode well.

The small ray of light at the end of the tunnel was that Smackdown fared better than Raw for the week as far as ratings drops. Maybe AJ Styles will be a champion able to bring new viewers to Smackdown since poor Dean couldn't. You brought up a good point about the storylines these days, there does seem to be a transition into the UFC/MMA way of doing things.

It could just be people behind the scenes realizing how green some of their talent are in regards to promo work. NXT has been great for grooming in ring talent, but not so much for anything else. I think Kevin Owens is the only exception among the talents called up in the past three years. Paige is okay when her scripting is good, but that's a negative in itself as it leaves her dependent on the script. Meanwhile a lot of the remaining veterans are pretty bad without a good script too. If this is the case it's a shame as one of the best things about the brand split format is that they have more time to script the stories which often results in better overall storytelling.

Some fantasy booking to go along with an Alexa Bliss Bra & Panties match (for which I nominate Lana or Summer Rae as her opponent): Becky Lynch and Nia Jax in a pudding match. Nikki Bella and Carmella in a water war match complete with super soakers and the winner getting to pop a giant water balloon hanging overhead onto the loser. Charlotte, Sasha, Bailey, & Dana in a hell in a cell match with fantasy/joke items like light sabers, magic wands, silly string, fizzing soda cans, whipped cream, and eggs... do it WWE! I guarantee you'll get a ratings boost for sure!

[phoenix00]

^

Spoiler

I think they also "pandered" to the hardcore WWE fan with the brand split. The I-just-want-to-see-guys-smack-each-other-around fans all went to UFC and the this-is-something-awesome-to-watch-on-Monday-nights peoples all went towards reality shows like Survivor or Big Brother. All three of these "demographics" gave Attitude Era Raw such high ratings.

I see it kinda like MM - they'll never get another million-selling single like Love Machine, but this hardcore MM wota loves Utakatta Saturday Night, Kimi no Kawari wa Iyashinai, Ai no Gundan, and Wakuteka Take a Chance. I also think you're right about how fickle the WWE Universe is. Sigh. Even though it was by crook more than by hook, AJ Styles deserves that belt. He's paid his dues. At the same time I wouldn't characterize Ambrose as "poor Dean" nor blame him for the low ratings, he gets a nice pop whenever he makes an entrance. As for Kevin Owens, he benefits from his long-running feud with Sami Zayn (Canada REPRESENT ) so both have had lots of mic time to hone their promos. Some of the other new guys/gals haven't had those long storylines through NXT so maybe that's why their promos haven't been as strong? Baron Corbin and Apollo Crews comes to mind, for example (plenty of chaff in that field lol). Paige desperately needs someone to play off of. Whiny goth emo girl gets old really fast. And I really like her in the ring. I also like your fantasy matchups I'll give you those if I get my 4 Horsewomen. Deal?

[☆RisaReinaSayu☆]

^There are reports that the majority of the crowd was booing Dean at last week's Smackdown, apparently people are not very big on him as a champion despite clamoring for him to be made champion for two years. He's also been reportedly booed at recent live events.

Spoiler

Kevin Owens is supposedly going to drop the Universal title to Seth at Clash of Champions because of people backstage still not liking him for the top guy physique wise. That's so messed up it ain't even funny. Though they're apparently pinning a chunk of the blame for the big drop in ratings between the Raw two weeks ago and this past week's Raw on him instead of their usual culprit football. And then there's the attendance numbers, which are down across the board for WWE shows both televised and non televised leading to concerns that the people they're focusing on lately aren't drawing.

Spoiler

No idea what they'll do with AJ Styles, but his reaction is better than Dean's and regardless of Cena being in the triple threat at the upcoming Smackdown exclusive PPV No Mercy that means there is no immediate reason to make AJ Styles drop the world title to anyone. In fact it's almost guaranteed he'd retain with Cena intending to take more time off for filming certain stuff (at the least there's confirmation he'll be filming episodes for season 2 of American Grit), and Dean generating a negative response from crowds.

Baron Corbin reminds me of Bo Dallas way back when he was NXT champion, just with less flab. Apollo Crews is just the next coming of Titus O'Neil. I laughed at the thought that WWE was trying to build that guy up, though athletically speaking I wouldn't mind seeing Titus or Apollo as the United States Champion. I just don't expect them to have Rusev drop it to anyone other than Roman as Roman needs to shine somewhere on the card being the long term pet project of Vince and such. Likewise I'd be fine with either of them being Intercontinental Champion, but WWE would be stupid to make Miz drop the title to anyone right now. He is doing way too good a job with it.

Paige does need someone to play off of, but she should probably try to reinvent herself into something other than the whiny emo goth chick rather than rely on WWE creative taking care of her. Otherwise her good storylines are gonna be few and far between and she'll never catch up with the 4 Horsewomen again. Speaking of which you can have them, in a ladder match for the original WWF/WWE Women's Championship.
 

[phoenix00]

Just finished watching both Raw and SD, and I actually preferred SD this week.  Can't really put it into words why though...

 

 

Speaking of which you can have them, in a ladder match for the original WWF/WWE Women's Championship

 

Yatta!  And that match is going to be /spectacular/

 

ETA: just finished watching NXT.  Cedric Alexander made that show!  So glad WWE signed him out of the CWC.  Will be interesting if he stays on NXT or bounces between there and the Raw Cruiserweight division.

Edited by phoenix00, 22 September 2016 - 09:12 AM.

[☆RisaReinaSayu☆]

^I don't watch Smackdown now that it's live, in real time (because of the brand split (my loyalty is and will always be to Raw, so during any brand split I will always abandon watching Smackdown unless something truly spectacular happens for Smackdown and thus I have no real choice but to care about it, which happened pretty quickly during the original brand split, but hasn't happened for this brand split yet) and because I don't really care for Daniel Bryan and prefer Stephanie to Shane), I just check out WhatCulture's WTF Moments and reports, but I didn't care much for this Monday's Raw myself. Regarding NXT I don't have the WWE Network so I couldn't watch NXT even if I wanted to. I just watch their most hyped and best rated matches when they get illegally uploaded to video hosting sites. I've heard good things about Cedric Alexander though so I'm hoping he doesn't get stuck in NXT for long or is allowed to bounce between Raw and NXT.

[phoenix00]

Heh the streaming sites are my bread-and-butter  

 

One big reason I prefer SD is I can't stand Michael Cole for whatever reason.  I much prefer Mauro Ranallo, although Corey Graves is the best color man bar none.  I also respect the heck out of both Mick Foley and Daniel Bryan for what they did when they were active.

 

Just finished watching Clash of Champions.  Highlight matches for me were Cesaro/Sheamus and the 3/4 Horsewomen, honorable mention Rusev/Roman Reigns.  Sami Zayn/Chris Jericho and Kevin Owens/Seth Rollins felt way too forced, esp. the Universal Championship match, you could see the storyline fixed ending from a mile away

[Recognizer]

Just wanted to say how AJ Styles is one big as*hole. Is he still popular out there in USA after the low blow?

[☆RisaReinaSayu☆]

^x2 or @phoenix00 - From what I heard and read the Cesaro/Sheamus bout really stole the show. I can definitely agree about the Universal Title match having an ending that could be foreseen by all, but Roman winning the US Title from Rusev was just as predictable. The triple threat match for the Women's title had an equally predictable end. It's too soon to have the belt switch hands again unless they want people to start calling this women's title the hot potato title. I was really disappointed when I saw the time stamp for the match between Nia and Alicia. They gave them like 7 minutes including entrances and shenanigans and the match itself was a one-sided slug fest that didn't even last a full five minutes just like we'd previously seen on Raw. A heads up if you're going to watch the post Clash of Champions Raw, be prepared to wonder why anyone pays a cent for WWE PPVs these days.

Spoiler

Rematch galore, Seth whining like baby, Stephanie having to tell Mick to do his job right (LOL, she's gonna get so much hate for it, but as usual she's right), Roman getting booed in the first three seconds since he entered the venue, Rusev being run into the ground his talents wasted on another attempt to get Roman over. Bailey in a squash match. Sasha talking the talk as usual, setting up a one on one for the women's title with Charlotte next week that'll probably see her fail to walk the walk again. On the bright side this episode had some great Cruiser-weight action and Kofi got his head busted open in the New Day's rematch for the tag team titles with the Club The main event was really boring and came out of nowhere. I guess WWE and USA Network stopped caring about the bigger than usual drop the third hour of RAW sees compared to the second hour.

Having seen Backlash and Clash of Champions who would you say had the better PPV Raw or Smackdown?  I feel like Smackdown won this battle just because of how big a deal it was for the brand to finally get their own tag team champs and their own women's champ. That was an important step for the brand and thus the PPV was truly a progressive event rather than an extra event to make money. Something of real note and impact actually happened during it which can't be said for most WWE PPVs of the last five years.

^x1 or @Rinz=Rinz - What did AJ Styles do or say exactly? And yes, if the reaction he gets is to be an indicator he's still popular in the states.

[phoenix00]

^^ yes he is.  If anything he's more popular now since the low-blow fits his "whatever it takes" persona.

 

^ Backlash also had the more compelling card, on top of your very correct points.

 

I just started RAW so we'll see if you're right