57 replies to this topic

[Greyface]

Kuriyama's "End of Morning Musume" thread seems to have dredged up a lot of talk about who could or should take over when Yoshizawa eventually retires, especially as it relates to Takahashi. This of course raises the point, what the heck does it mean to be leader anyway?

From my perspective, and that's a limited one... newbie fan and all that:
Being the leader of Morning Musume is a lot like being a corporal, and squad-leader in the army. You don't have official responsibility, you're not an officer. You're just somebody that the officers rely on, and that the other members trust and respect.
They lead (as opposed to command or direct).
The leaders parlay their trust and respect into proper behavior in the people they lead. Part of that is being a visible example. Part of that is that the actual directors (officers, if you want to remain in the military metaphor) would ask a leader something like, "Why are the girls so out of sorts today? We need them to focus for another 2 hours, and then we'll be done here." The rest of the girls see the leader getting chewed out for their bad behavior, and since they respect and like the leader, they want that to stop as soon as possible, so they start to behave better. In some ways, this works better than directly chewing out several people who are misbehaving, because shame turns into anger, and getting yelled at makes people defensive, or sullen, or any number of unproductive things.

What does the leader do? Well, in the Mechaike Okajo, during the final/bonus event (no spoilers) Leader Iida sort of set the pace for the group, and rallied them to get back into it when they were fading. And even though she herself was having a very hard time of it, she still made it a point to push everybody else into work. [Personally, I think that was a really good moment, for Iida personally, and for the group as a whole.]

So... what is it? It's being a good example. Having the respect of the other members (I mean that it's a requirement, not a perk).

Why is it important? Well... a half-dozen teen-aged girls are going to be a handful without one! A mother cat can herd her young, but a sheep-dog sure can't herd cats. The group will be more efficient and happier if well lead. Not to mention that in times when they need inspiration, if the leader is there, and inspiring... You get my point :c33:

[sejl]

Kuriyama's "End of Morning Musume" thread seems to have dredged up a lot of talk about who could or should take over when Yoshizawa eventually retires, especially as it relates to Takahashi. This of course raises the point, what the heck does it mean to be leader anyway?

From my perspective, and that's a limited one... newbie fan and all that:
Being the leader of Morning Musume is a lot like being a corporal, and squad-leader in the army. You don't have official responsibility, you're not an officer. You're just somebody that the officers rely on, and that the other members trust and respect.
They lead (as opposed to command or direct).
The leaders parlay their trust and respect into proper behavior in the people they lead. Part of that is being a visible example. Part of that is that the actual directors (officers, if you want to remain in the military metaphor) would ask a leader something like, "Why are the girls so out of sorts today? We need them to focus for another 2 hours, and then we'll be done here." The rest of the girls see the leader getting chewed out for their bad behavior, and since they respect and like the leader, they want that to stop as soon as possible, so they start to behave better. In some ways, this works better than directly chewing out several people who are misbehaving, because shame turns into anger, and getting yelled at makes people defensive, or sullen, or any number of unproductive things.

What does the leader do? Well, in the Mechaike Okajo, during the final/bonus event (no spoilers) Leader Iida sort of set the pace for the group, and rallied them to get back into it when they were fading. And even though she herself was having a very hard time of it, she still made it a point to push everybody else into work. [Personally, I think that was a really good moment, for Iida personally, and for the group as a whole.]

So... what is it? It's being a good example. Having the respect of the other members (I mean that it's a requirement, not a perk).

Why is it important? Well... a half-dozen teen-aged girls are going to be a handful without one! A mother cat can herd her young, but a sheep-dog sure can't herd cats. The group will be more efficient and happier if well lead. Not to mention that in times when they need inspiration, if the leader is there, and inspiring... You get my point :c33:

Good Question
I Agree
To me it seems like the leaders are really just figure heads
or as a good example for the other members
when it comes down to it do they really "Lead" the group?

Edited by sejl, 23 February 2006 - 03:03 AM.

[tchenku_rms13]

First of all, cats CAN be herded http://www.jeffiscoo...CatHerding.mpeg

I agree with the figurehead comment plus they are the composed, well-spoken representatives of the group for whenever they appear on talk shows, etc.

[mongbat]

I guess it's just the person who can represent the entire group in terms of talking to other people, and perhaps even in times where lectures - as in scoldings have to be given to the group, the leader gets it..
Also it should include motivation of the group and keeping their morale high.

[xmorfis]

I guess it's just the person who can represent the entire group in terms of talking to other people, and perhaps even in times where lectures - as in scoldings have to be given to the group, the leader gets it..
Also it should include motivation of the group and keeping their morale high.

Yes...I agree.All members rely on the leader for certain decision and action.Know the up and down of the industry...and as you mention represent the group

[Sakura_Y]

I would say that thye help the other girls, do the public speaking (concerts and such)

BUT, anyone can be trained for this.....Yossie wasn't exactly that outspoken when she joined MM, now look at her, she's pretty damned vocal

[ky_khor]

IMO:

- Leadership is not important for MM leader. The title is given followed by generation and age anyway. (which mean if u're eldest, u're the leader). Kaori is not a good leader, at least she was not when she's crowned the title. However she learned to be a good leader, and she was a good leader.

- I agree with ppl above, MM leader is just a head figure, whenever the host feel like looking for MM, leader will be called.

- MM leader doesn't make any decision. All decision are made by the management board (that's why they're called "manager"). MM leader acts like a messenger between management (Tsunku) and the rest of the members. Maybe what they need todo are 1)trying to unite all members, make sure the relationship among them are good 2)reporting member's prob to upper level if necessary. 3) Talk on behalf of all members.

but then ACE or Most popular membe still owned the leader,
so ACE > Popular/Lead Vocal > Leader > Problematic Members

- Robert Kiyosaki said, there're 2 types of leader. 1st type is the one who stand in front, making noise giving order. Everyone knows he's the leader. 2nd type is the one who are usually quiet, calm and make great decision during a crisis, and talk into your heart at the right time.

In my very own opinion, Yuko, Mari, Nacchi is the 1st type; Kaori, Kei, Rika is the 2nd. Yossi? Yossi sux.

*runaway from all the bashing*

[ferrar1]

im surprised no 1 mentioned risa to be the new leader after yosi-miki partnership end..

in my opinion, out of the remaining members, she is e most likely member to assume command of MM.. she do help out here and there and teach new kids what to do, maybe she doesnt have e full-qualities of a leader now but she can be coached slowly, no 1 is leaving MM this year i think..

[Proto]

They had better graduate Miki. But if they did MM would be without another powerful voice. Ah well.

[wankyler]

Most ppl(from other forums too) who hope there's no graduation this year thinks there's a graduation this year.

[wildstarr]

im surprised no 1 mentioned risa to be the new leader after yosi-miki partnership end..
in my opinion, out of the remaining members, she is e most likely member to assume command of MM.

I think she would be an good example of the 1st type of leader ky_khor mentioned. But if/when Yossi and Miki leave, Ai-chan will be leader because she is the oldest. The MM leader has always been the oldest member except for the current situation. Miki is 2 months older than Yossi.

It would be an Ai-chan/Konkon leadership. And thats fine by me.

[Himalia™]

That might well be well balanced thinking about it. I could live with that, actually i wouldnt object no matter who it was. Its just some would seem better suited than others.

[RyeCrimsonMoon]

I agree with ky. The leaders of MoMusu aren't appointed by ability to lead, but who is eldest and eldest generation. The only reason Abe wasn't leader was because Kaori was born 2 days before her.

I think Abe would've made a good leader though. I think someone mentioned the little Sports shortwhatshisfaceguy special when Kaori was ralling everyone up to keep going with the jump rope, well, Nacchi was there too, helping out and even helping Kaori.

If Niigaki became leader, that'd wouldn't be very good IMO. (Considering she's the youngest 5th gen., thus they'd havta chop down the rest of the 5th gen, Miki and Yossi to get to her ._.; Woah...) But besides that, even though I love her, she's much more of a "follower" then a leader to me. IMO, I don't think she would know what to do.

I don't know why people don't like the idea of Ai leading. Yes, I don't think she has much of a personality and she's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I still think she wouldn't be bad, in a sense. Even though I can't see her lead (she seems like much more of a follower then a leader as well), I don't think she'd run the group into the ground.

But right now in the current line up, I think the best person for leader would be Miki. She gives me a "Nakazawa" feeling when it comes to her leadership.

But of course, I think the best and only leader MoMusu should/did have was Yuuko. Watching all the old clips, she always had this "we came here to win" look on her face.

[DrWorm]

The MM leader has always been the oldest member except for the current situation. Miki is 2 months older than Yossi.

The actual order is when they joined H!P then their age, thus the reason why Hitomi is the leader.

[ky_khor]

?? since when Dr.Worm has become a HPS staff? :cool :cool :cool :cool

[sheep goat]

In my very own opinion, Yuko, Mari, Nacchi is the 1st type; Kaori, Kei, Rika is the 2nd. Yossi? Yossi sux.

*runaway from all the bashing*

uh. WHAT? I think I am thoroughly upset with you.


What goes with building up morale is... I think the leader has to check on the other girls to make sure they're feeling ok and up to par. It's no good to be forced out into public when you don't feel well about something, so the leader is probably supposed to help with other girls' problems if she can.

Yossi seems like a pretty good leader to me, and comparing her with two others? Not much to say. Each have their own attributes to being leader. Yuko's the most outspoken, but Kaori and Yossi probably support the group just as much as Yuko. They're all good leaders, I think.

[Greyface]

The actual order is when they joined H!P then their age, thus the reason why Hitomi is the leader.

Yasuda was co-leader with Iida for about 2 years, despite being a generation later. (Though Yasuda is several months older.) There would be sufficient precident to make Fujimoto co-leader with Yoshizawa. Just as Yasuda took a leadership role over Abe, Fujimoto would be able to over Konno, Takahashi, Ogawa, and Niigaki.

I think the simplest fact is that the leader role will tend towards older members and more senior members (two different things) because it is satisfying to the Japanese notions of seniority and respect. But I don't think it's reasonable to say that the rules for who will become leader are in some way contractual, or subject to legalistic interpretation. The Leader will be, who The Leader is. I'm confident that the members themselves and their managers don't have their hands tied in this matter.

[danzarely]

i dont get all the "RISA! AH!!" remarks. risa is a VERY good speaker, and Yossi and Miki both said on Hello!Morning that they could understand Risa's thinking because she's very mature. In my opinion, Ai would be a good leader, Konno would make a nice sub-leader - but i couldnt see her in the leader role, makoto is TOO selfconscious to take on leadership, and all that's left is Risa. I think she'd be a great leader, and she gets along with ALL of the younger members unlike Ai. There's even a clip of Risa helping Koharu fix her costume ON STAGE while everyone else just ignored her predicament.

[ky_khor]

I think she'd be a great leader, and she gets along with ALL of the younger members unlike Ai.

Reina like Aichan more than Risa, Sayu like Aichan more than Risa. Miki is closer to Aichan than to Risa.




so wat is that "unlike Ai."??? :: ::

[FumikoH]

...MM leader doesn't make any decision. All decision are made by the management board (that's why they're called "manager"). MM leader acts like a messenger between management (Tsunku) and the rest of the members. Maybe what they need to do are 1) trying to unite all members, make sure the relationship among them are good 2) reporting member's prob to upper level if necessary. 3) talk on behalf of all members.

Okay, my unsolicited opinion: this is most important statement in thread! Coaches and owners of teams are still the bosses, no matter what, and players must do what coaches say. However, players are not motivated by coaches who are, excuse me, old farts! who don't remember anything about being a player! Players are motivated by other players who are respected and good interacting with people. I know this from many years playing softball in high school and college, and watching my cousin playing baseball in high school and now college! Every team needs leadership on the field, this must be a player! notice ky_khor statement below.

...but then ACE or Most popular member still owned the leader, so ACE > Popular/Lead Vocal > Leader > Problematic Members

...I think the simplest fact is that the leader role will tend towards older members and more senior members (two different things) because it is satisfying to the Japanese notions of seniority and respect...The Leader will be who The Leader is.

This is second most important statement in thread! Japanese idea of leadership is always related to age and experience, one of elders will be most respected and popular. Please remember our culture which has not changed very much in one thousand years. Also I will say that leadership is more difficult for Japanese girls because we are not taught these skills or attitudes, we are taught in every way that men are leaders, we are team members. Teenager girls must have older women for leaders, not peers, I know this from experience. All MM members are teenager girls, yes?

Okay, finished with my unsolicited opinion!