218 replies to this topic

[megumibex]

I'm super sick of all the h!p groups becoming rotational. KF grad killed me inside, but at least it's better than them becoming a holding pen for all the KSS too talented to join MM. Honestly if TF can't go on as they are, they should just disband, and have whichever members want to stay in h!p go solo or lead a new group. 

 

Rant aside: since this audition is already happening I'll be cautiously optimistic awaiting the new members. 

[Verilian]

They found Wakana and Rin for the Angerme audtions - I'm sure they can find more girls who are good singers for juice. I think the number of girls added will let us know how many members will be graduating from Juice=Juice.

 

It's...interesting that they're making Tsubaki generational. I think it'd upset the group chemistry but I think Tsubaki could use more vocalists.

[Punkin]

They really should have left Juice alone for now. Adding members RIGHT AFTER someone leaves constantly isn’t great imo. In the lineup as it currently stands, Rei is just really getting started, and Riai and Yume haven’t really gotten a chance to build a fanbase and get established as true members of the group. This line up could have marinated longer, and when Tomo leaves, that would be 7 members... which they also could then leave as-is until maybe another girl leaves, THEN add members.

If you’re replacing the current girls right away, these new girls aren’t getting enough time to get good enough. Juice is gunna end up being like Anju, who were once really strong performance-wise and vocally, but now have more weak singers than strong ones, and who’s members don’t mesh as well because they don’t have enough TIME to mesh. Like, Momusu is the same way.

When you have a group that’s half fantastic performers and half newbies, it lowers the image of the group as a whole. Up until now Juice has had great luck with adding members that are great performers to keep the skill level of Juice high, by replacing highly skilled members with new HIGHLY SKILLED members. If they’re just going to start adding whoever, or girls that seem “promising” but need to grow into that potential, Juice is going to have weaker members that bring down that skilled image.

I also hope they don’t add a bunch of really young girls to Juice. Juice is the only H!P group I heavily support, because the older I get the more uncomfortable I feel with being a fan of really young girls... would be nice to have them be 16+.

^^ I completely agree!! My love for H!P definitely decreased each time another group become generational. There’s very little uniqueness to the groups as a result. Sometimes it’s better to just let good things end, which is why some H!P groups (Berryz + C-ute, Buono!, Melon Kinenbi, etc) were awesome and had a great legacy and group of songs to leave behind... when you drag things out, they start to get stale even with “new blood”, and they also become rather exhausting. I’d rather a group like Kobushi just disband and let things be as they were, then to constantly add new members to cover up issues with the group / sales. Those aforementioned disbanded H!P groups were allowed to hit rock bottom and have issues with sales or such without new members being a consideration, they were allowed to stick it out as they were — I wish H!P would return to that, because then Kobushi could have had a success story like C-ute if they’d been allowed.

I think H!P avoids creating new groups and would rather just make them all generational because then they don’t have to deal with disbanding groups when members are done (like how Karin said she assumed juice would be — they’d all decided around the age of 20 to disband and move on to other things, but juice becoming generational ruined that) and also the trouble of creating new groups. If they’re all generational, then they have multiple places to put new girls, and they don’t have to put effort into truly fixing anything or starting up new groups as others disband or any of that — they just keep adding new girls all the time to whatever group “needs it”. Easier and faster, I guess. It’s a shame, but it almost feels “cheaper” somehow. Like less effort is actually going into these groups when they’re generational.

[give me aiai]

everybody: noooooo not more auditions im tired of auditions :///
everybody as soon as we get new girls: OMG SHE IS MY NEW OSHI I LOVE HER SHES SO PERFECT

you’d imagine by now we’d be used to auditions and yet,

[Juandalyn]

I don't think people are worried about new girls, they're worried about the old ones leaving lol

[Doraleous]

The more, the merrier.

 

Oof

[rurupedia]

yeah making groups generational is probably the easiest way to fix failing groups or to patch holes after grads, but it often comes at the cost of the group's identity and also altering the group dynamic. but at the same time, as much as i'd like to see more stable groups, i think this is more of an adaption to the current idol landscape. i mean turnover's always been high in indie/chika idol groups and members come and go all the time, and that's sort of leaked into more mainstream groups in the last decade, especially with the idol boom which was kicked off by akb48, a huge group where members are added and graduated fairly often. and i notice a lot of people bring up berikyu and how long they were together, but also i think it's important to acknowledge that those groups were formed before the idol boom, which made generational groups more common, and when the girls were super young; by the time berryz disbanded they were only in their early twenties iirc, and c-ute was the same i think. i can't speak for other groups from the 2000s not in h!p since i don't really know of many of them, but afaik in the last decade rotational groups have definitely become more common so to me it makes sense that h!p's kind of adapted to that and made most of their groups rotational. and also, rotational groups being a thing means members who don't want to go when their groups are disbanding can be moved to other groups. the obvious and only example for this is reirei, but i'm hoping that this kinda becomes more of a common thing since it doesn't mean that idols HAVE to graduate when their groups disband.

 

...all that said though, yeah i wish we saw more stable groups lol. like i said at the beginning making groups rotational means it kinda dilutes the group's identity, and also doing it so often means new members can't adapt since they don't have the time to (i mean j=j added yumeriai last year and they've only had one single with minimal attention given to them, and reirei hasn't even debuted with the group yet, though it's upcoming with the new single). idrk where i'm going with this but i guess like, as much as i want to see groups keep stable lineups, i don't think making all groups generational is much of a problem in the long run. and i don't really think this is something that'll exactly benefit j=j or tsubaki (especially the latter), but well, like megumibex i'm gonna be cautiously optimistic about it, because in the end it's fun to see new idols debut, but i think what we're all mostly worried about is possible graduations.

 

(yeah obviously now that i've had more time to think about it i've changed my mind from my last post here LOL. that was more a first reaction, and i'm still not really happy about this but like i said, i'm gonna try and be optimistic. which is hard since i'm super pessimistic most of the time but these are idol groups it's not that deep lmao)

[Curlymckay]

Personally, I don't mind members graduating if they want to graduate. I'd rather them be able to go and do what they want versus being trapped in a group if they no longer want to be there. It's gonna suck, and I'm still sad about some past graduations but unless they get contracts that require them to stay in the group for X amount of years, there's not much we can do. Also, I don't mind the generational groups since just because a few members are done with being an idol doesn't mean the rest of them are. If a member is gonna be in a group with a new girl who has no fans, might as well just keep the name so some people still recognize the group. 

 

However, I do agree with the general consensus that neither group actually needs new members. I can see how it'll help in the future if the new members are added now and graduations happen later but assuming no graduations (unlikely), both groups are fine. For the issue of having a talented group with complete newbies, maybe H!P already has some KSS in mind, but they're doing the audition just in case someone catches their eye. There's been times before where a newbie without training was still talented. 

[Touki]

I'm super sick of all the h!p groups becoming rotational. KF grad killed me inside, but at least it's better than them becoming a holding pen for all the KSS too talented to join MM. Honestly if TF can't go on as they are, they should just disband, and have whichever members want to stay in h!p go solo or lead a new group. 

 

Rant aside: since this audition is already happening I'll be cautiously optimistic awaiting the new members. 

 

Lesson learned from the failure of Platinum Era. It doesn't mean C-ute was not successful, but in fact they were. The problem is that when the company doesn't add any new members to a group after a member graduates, they have to make sure that the group make constant or better profit, like C-ute did. And regarding new groups established by remaining member, it's an almost impossible task. It's not UFP who advises members to create new group, it's the member who needs to propose the plan to UFP. If there are members who have mindsets of Sashihara Rino or Watanabe Miyuki, it may work. That's why UFP still keeps this rotational idea, to keep profit

[Danes83]

IMO, the current Haropro is selling a "Brand" which represented by every groups (and their distinct style). The members (the existing one, the graduated one, the upcoming one) are part of the "Brand". I dunno why, but they killed two brands (C.G & KF), and created the new one (Beyooooonds). I guess in this recession-pandemic situation, the decision to create a new "Brand" will be less-likely possible (sales and market is decrease), so better to strengthen the capabilities of current "Brand", by adding new, fresh members.

 

But this theory can be demise, if there's some big announcement in the upcoming Kenshuusei's show. New groups maybe?

[rurupedia]

^i think i read something similar to that recently, where with making the groups generational it kind of switches the focus from the members to the group's general identity and concept. like, i guess in a way it's establishing brand loyalty in fans, where instead of them supporting a group just for the members, they support the group because it's the group. so basically like i guess they're taking momusu's concept and applying it to other groups. it's definitely cost effective so new groups don't have to be developed often, and like i said makes fans loyal to certain groups for a long period of time, but idk i guess a big downside is well, less (long-term?) emphasis on the members. i mean it's still there ofc cuz it's idol groups but it means being a fan is less about being a fan of the idols and more a fan of the brand. but that said though, having lost both cg and kf in the same year (and both declining rapidly around the same time), h!p miiiight want to establish a new brand with a new group. but yeah with the pandemic and everything that might not be a good idea rn so lol idk

[tadase]

The problem with making the brand bigger than the members, imo, is the company won't truly make a star out of their current members because they're depending on the group brand loyalty (focus as a group) rather than the star quality of the members. We will surely come at another point where we'll see fans go "this lineup sucks" or "this lineup lacks/needs something" which will again create another opportunity for the company to add members. UFP may not be deliberately creating new stars -- another Sayumi, another Sayashi, another Suzuki Kanon -- and instead went into directions of keeping general group impressions such as "Morning Musume makes cool songs now, regardless of who's in it" or "Juice=Juice is a group with very skilled members, regardless of who are there now." It's similar to seeing a Cirque de Soleil every year with ever-changing additions and subtractions to member-casts, and not knowing much who they are.

[Danes83]

What i can see from this new audition for both JuJu and TF is management have a medium-long term plan for them in the future. It's more like maintaining the brand Momusu (have been living for 22 years). The current members may get old, but the group will last for long period of time.

 

Btw back to topic, i think the mix of audition for two groups, will get likely 2 or 3 members (with specific skills like "we need a name" from Beyooooonds), the rest will be take from current Kenshuusei. I can see the similar composition of Angerme (2 audition members 1 kenshuusei) will be happen again. let's wait for the next btw.

[Touki]

And even though the company wants to make H!P groups rotational to keep profit, I hope that the manager doesn't just choose new members randomly. What I mean is that new members chosen for J=J should have potentials to become strong performers, and new members chosen for TF should have hyper-girly aura. In this way, H!P groups can both be rotational and keep their identities

[Ducky Mioda]

I don't think people are worried about new girls, they're worried about the old ones leaving lol

 

Reading your post makes me think about that "Super Junior Only 13" thing from 2007 (the year when Super Junior fans were so outraged at the decision of SM Entertainment - the South Korean entertainment company that manages Super Junior - to add Henry to the group because they believed the company could potentially replace one of the Super Junior members)...

[sukibeam]

I also hope they don’t add a bunch of really young girls to Juice. Juice is the only H!P group I heavily support, because the older I get the more uncomfortable I feel with being a fan of really young girls... would be nice to have them be 16+.

 

I am in the same age group as 4th and 5th gen Morning Musume (born in May '86). Following MM since the early 00's was like watching my peers all through Platinum Era. I wasn't too into the H!P Kids at first, but rather gravitated to Musume, Matsuura Aya, W, Ongaku Gatas... the older acts. At some point, around when S/mileage became a thing, I gravitated into the feeling of being an older sister watching younger sisters grow. I know it's weird - considering I don't personally know any of the members in H!P. Now I'm just fawning over how adorable and small Wakana is like I'm her mother (and I have to face it, I'm totally old enough to be).

 

The change in perspective has been interesting. I went from trying to cut my bangs like Kago's to wanting to pinch cheeks. I personally feel that you can be a fan simply to cheer someone on, not necessarily because you look up to them or want to emulate them.

 

For J=J, I don't think they'd add anyone too much younger than Riai, who is currently 15.5 years old. I predicted they'd put Rei into J=J based on similar ages, and I'm thinking they wouldn't want to stray too much this time either. All depends on how good the auditioning girls are, I supposed.

[Jenksy]

Oh I don't know, I think Runo would actually be a nice addition to J=J

[celestia414]

I agree with what some have expressed here. Juice=Juice, sure, some of their members (the original members) seem likely to graduate soon. For Tsubaki? It's a hard pass. I thought that the factory groups would be with set members and once they graduate, the group ends. Since they were sort of the spiritual successors to Berryz and C-ute, it seemed like they would follow that path, but it was only Kobushi? I don't think adding a new member would do anything for that group right now. 

[Juandalyn]

Maybe we're also in a situation that, let's say, half of the group wants to graduate and the other half wants to carry on. If that was the case, Up Front would be in a weird situation since a group with only 4 members doesn't seem to be a thing nowadays (or only part-time, like Country Girls). The possibilities would be either dissolving the group and adding the remaining members to other groups (like Kobushi/Rei) or adding new members. That was something Kobushi didn't want so they ended the group, but maybe the members of Kobushi are more open about this option.

 

Or maybe they really want to set another mood after Risa's departure. I would have prefered a great comeback with the 8 members instead of the announcement of an audition, but well.

 

Other than making up for leaving members the only other reason to add members so far has been to hype up the group again, see S/mileage/ANGERME 3rd gen or Juice=Juice's new members. Tsubaki weren't in the best position after their long hiatus but they still sold really well (in fact, other than their beginning years I think Tsubaki might be the only group in H!P that newer had a low period), so I can't see that being the reason.

[Casidesia]

We have plenty of great trainees. I want them to have priority. I get that we get great prospects in these auditions, but I don't want to lose prospective girls in the trainee program because some new girl joined over a girl that's been waiting for years.