1233 replies to this topic

[patapataful]

^ 48groups stopped bikini shootings because of Olympic Games. No other reason.

[rurupedia]

yeah, and even if rio wanted to do it she shouldn't have been allowed. rio's not an adult, she should've been protected by the adults who handle her (parents, managers, u get it) instead of them encouraging her if that's the case. i mean if rio can't legally consent to sexual acts then why is it fine for her body to be blatantly sexualized like this? ugh. really hope h!p bans underage swimsuit gravure soon like 48g did, it's long overdue.

 

on a lighter note, i'm happy rio's getting work at least. i still stand by my point that all 3 15ki girls are being pushed and not just one, but it's good to see rio in particular is getting focused on slightly more since she's the most hyped by the fandom. also i might get mei and homa's pbs but i'm still trying to figure out if i wanna get this one or not lol. i mean the name and cover is hella uncomfortable so i gotta weigh the pros and cons. why didn't they just give her a visual pb to match mei and homa's >_<

[YellowAccel]

I assue they gave her a regular photobook because they wanted this one to feel like a big event.

[Greyface]

^

^

1. Because she's a minor, the agency and photobook publisher both definitely got specific consent from her guardians about the photobook before entering any financial agreements with anybody.  Nobody signs contracts with minors-only in Japan, because their guardians can cancel the contract at any time in any circumstance without any cost or legal penalty to the minor or their family.  Contracts with minors without guardian sign-off are simply not legally binding on the minor.

 

2. Sexual activity and photoshoots with a lot of skin exposed are MASSIVELY DIFFERENT.  Please stop hyperventilating as if being photographed in a bikini is prostitution.  It's not reasonable to use the wrongness of underage sex work as a set up to problematize underage swimwear gravure.  Even if you want to argue that the photos are used for obscene purposes by the consumer, nothing lewd is being done to Kitagawa. You may think it's in bad taste (and, tbh, I think so, too) but it's not sex work. 

The average modern teenager is simply not "modest."  In Japan or anywhere in the liberal "free" world.  I don't know Kitagawa as a person, but on average she probably wasn't encouraged to do anything she was not already inclined to do.  And with the consent of her guardians.

[rurupedia]

gravure is not sex work, but it's an industry specifically targeted at an audience that will use it for sexual purposes. if that wasn't the case, then why is rio's pb called "first time"? why are there shots explicitly focused on her chest and butt? the problem isn't that she's a minor doing photoshoots in swimsuits, there's nothing INHERENTLY wrong with that. the problem is that the shoots explicitly focus on and market her body for the consumption of people who will use it for sexual purposes. and just because her parents signed off on it doesn't make it ok, neither is it relevant that the average modern teenager is not modest. rio is a minor, she's not legally competent enough to consent to her body being marketed in this way and that's the problem. i don't mind swimsuit gravure, in fact i'm happy when my faves do it because i know they're likely making more money from it than they do as an idol (though cmiiw), and they're able to consent to their body being marketed in a suggestive manner. but rio (and other underage h!p girls that do swimsuit gravure) is not old enough to consent to that, even if she knows the implications of these photos and how they're likely to be used, her opinion is irrelevant because she's not old enough to declare that she is ok with this. it's up to the adults around her to protect her from being sexualized this way, and they clearly haven't.

[Sayaki]

She always said she wanted to though, so it's nice for her fans and we can only hope she reaches the goal she wanted with it right?

[Touki]

Remember that her guardians can cancel the contract at any time, even 1 day before the release of this PB. Unless there are a lot people complaining about it explicitly, this gravure industry regarding minors won't stop. If you are really uncomfortable with it, the only way to stop it is to establish a non-profit organization and fight against it, because there's no way the company sacrifices their profit to satisfy one unpopular opinions. Another way to stop it is not to buy it, and the company thinks that releasing PB involving minor doesn't sell.

 

I'm the one who's OK with it, as long as lewd things must not happen to her. Quite a lot of H!P members release PB when they were under 18 years old. I remember that the PBs sell well when the idols in the PBs are around 16 - 20. After that, the sell goes down a lot, except for some cases (Fuku-chan). Furthermore, I don't think people who sexualize models tend to look for these H!P photobooks, since there are a lot of contents outside H!P that look more voluptuous. There is another industry to satisfy these audiences, which I don't want to mention here.

 

Yes, from the company's perspective, they think that releasing a PB of idols at the age of around 16 is a good strategy, and if that idol releases the 2nd PB in the future, it will sell a lot. Their main objective is to make money. I remembered that Aari of J=J was talked into doing PBs, which I don't agree. On the other side, even though her 1st PBs sold quite well (when she was about 16), her 3rd PBs looked like a joke. I assure that from then on, whenever she asks for another PB, she will never have it. She's one of the idols who disapproves fans fantasizing her that way, and I'm amazed that she still did that even if it cost her lots of fans (successful idols usually release lots of PBs, appear more on TV shows, and is an ace or near to the ace). There are idols who choose to do Visual-photobooks which don't involve bikini shots such as Kassa or Maa-chan (with the risk of selling less), and I'm sure that there are idols who don't even need a PB to become successful: Maa-chan, but do you think Rio can be like that? I think it's really difficult, and by the time she achieves Maa-chan's level, Homatan and Mei may go beyond her.

 

I totally respect when idols refuse fans to perceive them as "girls in gravure shots", but the fact is that there are very few idols who don't do PBs before 18 but are still popular. And if you are not comfortable seeing her in bikini, don't buy it. Buying Photobook is not the only way for you to support your idol, and I think it's true especially in H!P.

[RenaiDestiny。]

^
^
1. Because she's a minor, the agency and photobook publisher both definitely got specific consent from her guardians about the photobook before entering any financial agreements with anybody.  Nobody signs contracts with minors-only in Japan, because their guardians can cancel the contract at any time in any circumstance without any cost or legal penalty to the minor or their family.  Contracts with minors without guardian sign-off are simply not legally binding on the minor.
 
2. Sexual activity and photoshoots with a lot of skin exposed are MASSIVELY DIFFERENT.  Please stop hyperventilating as if being photographed in a bikini is prostitution.  It's not reasonable to use the wrongness of underage sex work as a set up to problematize underage swimwear gravure.  Even if you want to argue that the photos are used for obscene purposes by the consumer, nothing lewd is being done to Kitagawa. You may think it's in bad taste (and, tbh, I think so, too) but it's not sex work. 
The average modern teenager is simply not "modest."  In Japan or anywhere in the liberal "free" world.  I don't know Kitagawa as a person, but on average she probably wasn't encouraged to do anything she was not already inclined to do.  And with the consent of her guardians.

See.... no. Bikini gravure isn't comparable to actual sex work, but bikini gravure of minors is still exposing them to an audience of people that you know will more than likely do horrible things with said content once they get their hands on it. Bikini gravure of minors is problematic, there's no way around it. Like okay, it isn't as bad as them doing pornography or other forms of sex work, but it's still once again, putting out content to N audience where you know the majority of the fans who buy this kind of content, are much older male fans. H!P arguably hasn't had a successful photobook market since the Golden era, and even popular visual members such as Mizuki, Maria, Inoue Rei, Uemuu, etc. see more success in magazine shoots than photobooks that might not even hit the 3,000 copies sold mark.

Duu, Sugaya Risako, and Riho's early debut photobooks when they were still minors were horrendous, with tons of close up shots of their private areas, namely their breasts and their butts. Rio's full photobook hasn't been released so it's hard to know what kind of content is actually in there, but the covers and that title alone just give me negative vibes. UFP can promote her better than making this kind of content of her at a young age. I know she can't personally sign contracts because she's legally a minor, but I can't say I'm surprised that her parents signed a contract to put out content of her in this light, because in their eyes, it's their daughter getting a better push.

[Kurolivier]

Gotta be on Greyface and Touki's side here.
To also emphasize on the fact that current teens in the Era of social media and their awareness about self exposure, I do seem to remember kitario told that she wanted to be a YouTuber..

[RenaiDestiny。]

She always said she wanted to though, so it's nice for her fans and we can only hope she reaches the goal she wanted with it right?

I know Rio's original goal was to have the record of a new member with the fastest photobook debut, and I respect her goal. But that goal, didn't need to sexualize her, especially when her fellow members who are around her age range had visual photobooks that didn't include content like that. She's the oldest of her generation, but only by a couple of months or a year and honestly, having HomaMei's photobooks being kind of wholesome, personality based content vs. her's being more mature and having bikini gravure gives me the impression that UFP is almost kind kf pushing her to look older than she seems, which isn't okay. Obviously, this is the road she chose for a career as of right now but they should still let the kids, be kids. 9-11 will probably graduate within the next 3 years, and I can tell they're trying to give 12-15th gen more a good footing so that they can maintain the household name once they leave and not have to experience another Platinum Era, so while I'm all down and in support of Rio's push, I just think it should've been executed better. They should get her into being a fashion/visual magazine regular like Maria and Risako, that'd be better for pushing her as a visual.

^ I don't really know what her wanting to be a YouTuber has to do with the justification of why UFP is making a 15-16 year old release bikini gravure, especially since most popular YouTubers nowadays mainly do mukbangs or vlogs, which is probably the road she would've headed down if she actually pursued that goal.

[Doraleous]

Ah fck it.

 

Marvelous debate, ladies and gents, keep it up.

[Kurolivier]

Apologies for the multiple repeated message, seems a bug on my phone.

[DiegoKashiwagi]

i think that the problem is not bikinis themselves lol and yes, rio specifically said she wanted this so i guess she is okay with it, and also, i think the weirdos that see the girls on a sexual manner will do regardless of if they do a visual or regular pb. (but this might mean less sales from people that purchase pbs from girls regardless if they know who they are or not)

BUT i do think there's a more natural way to show the girls on swimsuits, like them playing around and avoiding the shots they usually do for hp pbs, also, the title this time doesnt contribute at all.

[Touki]

BUT i do think there's a more natural way to show the girls on swimsuits, like them playing around and avoiding the shots they usually do for hp pbs, also, the title this time doesnt contribute at all.

 
There are PBs like that. If you look at Mizuho's PB shot, it focuses more on playful side of her.
Even so, when somebody perceives gravure shots as uncomfortable to watch, usually it's uncomfortable to watch when it involves bikini shots, regardless of the situation. And just like you said, when weirdos look at the PBs, even for H!P's PBs, they perceive them very differently.


 

They should get her into being a fashion/visual magazine regular like Maria and Risako, that'd be better for pushing her as a visual.

There's almost no idol who can succeed in becoming a visuals and appear on visual/fashion magazines regularly without either PBs or appearing in gravure magazine in such a short time. The only idol who didn't go through excessive gravure work for fashion/visual work is Eripon, but that's usually for advertisement of golf's clothes, and it took her lots of years. Even Rikako and Reirei had to release a PB before becoming regular models for fashion magazines without having a second one for a long time. I think it's possible for Rio to appear on visual/fashion magazines without PBs, but it requires 5 to 7 years for her to become a regular. No fashion company cares about promoting someone who is never heard of. You don't see Aari of J=J on any magazine this year because she's not a visual anymore, but I blame the company more for pushing her too far to make her uncomfortable, and when she felt more comfortable to do gravure shots, nobody cared, it was too late. While I'm OK with bikini shots, I hope the similar situation doesn't happen to Rio, since I don't want her to face the same consequence. As long as she's comfortable with it, and her parents discuss with her carefully about it, it's OK. There are always risks for being popular, and I guess everybody knows that, including underage idols.

[rcb2418]

In Japan, it's OK to do these type of photobooks only if you're in the entertainment industry. It is not perceived as something wrong even though the public won't wear this type of swimsuit.

[Hollerama]

Happy Halloween!

 

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[mikachuuu]

Her Body her choice.

 

What people do with goods they bought with their hard earned money should be none of anyones buisness. If you see a tribute picture block it and move on. How is that an issue to you or to the girl? Those pictures and videos have been around since the birth of idols and well phones with a camera.
Rio is 16 she knows what guys and girls do and what porn is. We all knew at that age.  
Never understood why some H!P fans think the girls are some dumbass puppets. They are normal people like you and me. Would not surprise me if they read 2ch themselve (i think there was a rumor that sayu created some threads herself).
 

[DiegoKashiwagi]

nobody is stating she doesn't know about sex or such stuff.

 

What people do with goods they bought with their hard earned money should be none of anyones buisness. If you see a tribute picture block it and move on. How is that an issue to you or to the girl? Those pictures and videos have been around since the birth of idols and well phones with a camera.

 

 

uhm, yeah, this is not it, this is so wrong i don't even feel like arguing about it.

let's just try to leave this topic behind since the pb is being released anyways and weirdos will continue being weirdos ^^

[Verilian]

In other news, Rio appeared on J-melo recently with Funaki!



I think she did better in the second half from her concert recording, but it's still nice to see how expressive she is in her singing! Also nice to see her getting the push--hopefully this means that she gets some lines on the new single. I don't think she will get many but I see her getting pushed the way Mizuki did at first.

[YellowAccel]

What a beautiful performance ^^ I really hope the fact she's center on the 2nd profile pic means something even if i doubt it does