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Please do not purchase from MM Germany!


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#21 Ahornbjörn

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 06:17 PM

https://www.facebook...832964440164446

 

more of the same

 

happyxmasmmg2.jpg

 

happyxmasmmg3.jpg

 

2.PNG

monetized by Up-Front (copyright owner)


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#22 timekiller001^

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 06:49 PM



https://www.facebook...832964440164446

 

more of the same

 

happyxmasmmg2.jpg

 

monetized by Up-Front (copyright owner)

 

"As you can see here easily, this is only the music from the videos that Morning Musume '18 are in and you can listen to this at Youtube Music without ads".

Spoiler

"You can see that we don't earn money in any way with this video, the monetization is from Upfront. Which picture 2 shows."

Spoiler

"When watching a video you should read everything there is to read and don't jump to conclusions.

Of course we'd like to excuse us for all the turmoil that happened. That was not our intention at all.

Concerning the download platforms, this is only for us to download the music in Europe."

Spoiler

"That was granted only for those living in Asia. And, you can believe us, we don't earn much with it. We already posted that yesterday.

The fact that we deleted that is just for not ruining the christmas spirit."

Spoiler

"We hope everything's alright now. We can understand your discontent!"

"I still wish you Merry Christmas"



#23 Juandalyn

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 06:50 PM

He says he wanted to make it possible for European fans to download the music because this was only possible for Asian fans.

 

...I mean, we all know that's wrong. There are missing tracks every now and then, but lots of people on this forum have bought music over apple. And I think that was from the official source, right? 

 

I love how he's saying "[...] dass wir in keinster Weise daran verdienen" (basically "we don't earn any money from it") and later on in the text he's all "[...] so viel verdienen wir nicht daran" ("we don't get that much from it"). 

Honestly, does he think we're stupid?

 

EDIT: Ah ok, so basically he doesn't get money from YouTube but from the downloads, two different things. But even if he didn't want to do anything bad with it, just helping European fans, he must know that he can't just sell stuff that he doesn't own. Also, the fraud CDs are still a thing. 


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#24 Ahornbjörn

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 07:28 PM

In the FB comments he says that he had no idea about the bootleg CDs etc 

:c18:  :D

 

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Capture.PNG

 

"now I get why everyone is upset, why didn't you come to me earlier? I'll settle it tomorrow... its someone else's fault! would you accept my apology ?, I would be glad"

 

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"I don't make a profit, I'm paying more for it" @iTunes

 

2ch translation 

https://mikanseirepl...qKdybIgG9TA_qjo

A company called Morning Musume Germany has assumed copyright rights for Morning Musume songs and is unfairly making profit on Spotify and Itunes


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#25 timekiller001^

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 07:58 PM

I like how he blatantly ignores questions for proof... :c18: or our proof

 

BTW: I have received an answer from TuneCore, the company/system claming the copyright in his name:

 

"Vielen Dank für deine Kontaktaufnahme mit TuneCore. Wenn du der Meinung bist, dass Rechte durch das auf den TuneCore Service hochgeladene Material verletzt wurden, bitte sieh dir die TuneCore Urheberrechtspolitik bei http://www.tunecore....opyright-policy an, um Anweisungen zur Übermittlung einer Mitteilung über einen mutmaßlichen Verstoß an TuneCore's Urheberrechtsabteilung zu bekommen."

 

"Thank you very much for contacting TuneCore. If you are of the opinion that rights got violated by material uploaded by Tunecore's service, please read the TuneCore copyright policy at http://www.tunecore....opyright-policy to get advice at submitting an alleged breach to TuneCore's copyright department."

 

-> That page tells you how to submit a DMCA claim or counter claim - you need to be the copyright owner or to be authorized by them. So we can't do anything there I'm afraid



#26 IchVermisseDenSommer

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 08:33 PM

An English translation of a 2ch thread about this issue

https://mikanseirepl...out-mm-germany/

translated by @akaifreesia https://twitter.com/...827158189248512


Morning Musume______ANGERME________Juice=Juice_________Kobushi Factory____Tsubaki Factory____ BEYOOOOONDS

1. Sato Masaki         1. Kasahara Momona  1. Kanazawa Tomoko   1. Nomura Minami   1. Tanimoto Ami        1. Kobayashi Honoka

2. Fukumura Mizuki  2. Sasaki Rikako         2. Uemura Akari             2. Hirose Ayaka       2. Asakura Kiki          2.Okamura Minami

3. Oda Sakura          3. Wada Ayaka            3.  Dambara Ruru           3. Inoue Rei             3. Niinuma Kisora     3. Takase Kurumi


#27 xibo

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 10:02 PM

That means he's hitting the domestic market too, and this is one of streaming services that Oricon are going to count for the singles/album charts. So it will effect MM's chart positions, as well as pocket (even if it just means less fries for the girls :ph34r: ).


Pirates like morningmusumegermany aren't going to have a lot of impact on H!P's income or rankings, because H!P's idols, like any other idols, make most of their money with events. Also, the largest part of singles are bought by fans that want bundled goods/tickets and therefore buy large quantities of each single. Fans get neither goods (the real ones), nor, and more importantly, tickets, by buying counterfeit copies, so pirates will not be competition to begin with...

It does, however, have an impact on the reputation of the german fanbase (the real fans that is).

#28 timekiller001^

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 11:26 PM

In the Facebook post there was a comment from someone asking very detailed, necessary questions (it was in German and translated by Google Translate or some sort, it was mentioned in it) but that post's gone now.
Is that person here? Did you delete it or did it get deleted?

#29 Ahornbjörn

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 08:22 AM

And why should he have an impact on the german fan reputation?. Nobody I know likes this guy
you have a screenshot ? My posts are still there

Now he's defending it with his certificate (which only means that he has a shop with a copyright)

jof5q.jpg

https://m.facebook.c...296021440525428


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#30 Fallacia

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:28 AM

For years before the days of official youtube PVs, any single instance of gaijin trying to get any access at all to H!P videos was seen as inescapable proof to a large portion of Japanese wota during the platinum era that all foreign wota were selfish pirates that did not support the sales of H!P. Although most would still just see it for what it is, just about the only relief we get from that stereotype these days are unboxing and reaction videos shared on 2ch from Japanese fans of gaijin celebrities like Vince or Chiima.  For whatever it is worth, any stain on the reputation of any individual foreign wota of note reflects badly on all of us as an unfortunate matter of guilt-by-association.

 

To a very vocal minority, MMG is representative of all non-Japanese wota, but it will still be enough to continue the stereotype, however much the best of us work against it.  The protection of intellectual property in Japan is something as zealously guarded by its average citizen as religion is in the west, and a lot of Japanese fans see the free distribution of PVs on youtube with English subtitles as an abomination to be derided.  We can roll our eyes at the idea that one random person in Germany may be trying to defraud UF, or even collectively try to work to show that we do not subscribe to the practices of that one individual person, but a not-so-insignificant portion of those Japanese wota will only see it as validation of their prejudices against not just German fans, but all gaijin wota that they perceive as a threat to the financial well-being of the office and their preferred idols.  People look for any excuse where they can place the blame for a failure to meet their expectations, wherever it may be.  A scandal like this is just one more place where those who are dissatisfied with sales can point as an excuse to say that foreign wota are to blame for sales that do not meet expectations, whether it is a sentiment from that vocal minority of Japanese fans, or even held by representatives or executives in UF itself.


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#31 IchVermisseDenSommer

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 01:27 PM

And why should he have an impact on the german fan reputation?. Nobody I know likes this guy
you have a screenshot ? My posts are still there

Now he's defending it with his certificate (which only means that he has a shop)

jof5q.jpg

https://m.facebook.c...296021440525428

 

Like I already explained in the MM thread this certificate does NOT mean that he has a shop! This certificate and the whole webpage is a scam to begin with that he probably only used bc he's either dumb or tried to trick other people he does smth official!

The © means the thing it is used on is copyrighted. Like THE EXACT SAME THING IT IS USED ON. And copyright is ONLY ABOUT CREATIVE CONTENT. It also doesn't tell you anything abt the owner of the copyright. In this case it would means the name morning musume germany is copyrighted. Which it is not bc that is not how European copyright law works. You also can't pay a website to copyright things for you.

There is so much misinformation spread about how this guy might be official or how part of his business behaviour might be official. I'm losing my freaking mind over this!

 


Morning Musume______ANGERME________Juice=Juice_________Kobushi Factory____Tsubaki Factory____ BEYOOOOONDS

1. Sato Masaki         1. Kasahara Momona  1. Kanazawa Tomoko   1. Nomura Minami   1. Tanimoto Ami        1. Kobayashi Honoka

2. Fukumura Mizuki  2. Sasaki Rikako         2. Uemura Akari             2. Hirose Ayaka       2. Asakura Kiki          2.Okamura Minami

3. Oda Sakura          3. Wada Ayaka            3.  Dambara Ruru           3. Inoue Rei             3. Niinuma Kisora     3. Takase Kurumi


#32 Ahornbjörn

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 04:42 PM

capture5ue6b.png

The costs to produce BDs went up, so they hand over  fractional shares to him?

and high costs to publish their work on itunes/spotify... , what?!


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#33 MimiChama

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 09:33 PM

I‘m one of the people who actively engaged him (I‘m also german).

At this point I believe that he truly thought that he was doing fans a favor. His german is extremely bad and at times completely incomprehensible to the point where I feel that he might be mentally handicapped. At some points he agreed with me and said he would take care of things (though he didn‘t specify what that would entail), and now he comes out with this certificate — I think he truly does not understand that he‘s engaging in theft and fraud.

Of course this is only my perspective and conclusion but I do hope that people who try and engage him do so with some tact. I‘ve asked him one final question regarding him saying he has permission to redistribute the songs and that is whether he has direct permission and a contract from Up Front. Whether I get a reply or not, I think that this is the last time for me to engage him — I‘ve tried to get him to see reason and take down everything he uploaded but I can‘t do more than that.

Personally I still hope that this could still be solved without a lawsuit because as a fellow german fan I would feel a lot of second hand shame.

Time will tell.

#34 IchVermisseDenSommer

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 11:39 PM

I might be just more judgemental than you but already after his first response I thought he might be handicapped. Contrary to you though it doesn't make me empathise with him and I am not suspecting that he did this out of charity. He might or might not be a person with special needs. To think though that this would result in one a person not being aware how others perceive them and how this gives them an advantage if they are playing their cards right and two that you can't have malicious intent is a error of judgement.

This person was deemed fit enough by people around him to manage money online. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to receive and arrange payments in the first place. If his statements of account are checked by others people should be wondering by now what he paid a fraudulent copyright website for and what all those small amounts of money are strangers are paying him. Not to forget the logistics behind doing all this aren't that easy. And his understanding of copyright is extensive enough that he's throwing obviously not handicapped people here off the course by telling not completely offhanded lies about the problems of split copyright of artistic works created by more than one person.

Usually a witch hunt is a disgusting part time people take part in. Yet we are a small community and even a smaller part of us is aware of this. There's nothing but a handful of enraged people this guy is dealing with so far and it's not like anyone has done or expressed planning to do something particularly harmful to him. This guy on the other hand is diminishing the income of the people behind our fandom and probably even more he's damaging the picture of international fans and their payment power which is probably very small to begin with.

The latter is probably also the reason why UF might not want to file a lawsuit against this guy. At the end of the day even a criminal lawsuit is expensive and while thanks to the actually criminal nature of his doings he might be fined paying the company more than what he earned through his doings the company will only ever get it if this guy actually has enough money. So suing him might be a money-losing business.

 


Morning Musume______ANGERME________Juice=Juice_________Kobushi Factory____Tsubaki Factory____ BEYOOOOONDS

1. Sato Masaki         1. Kasahara Momona  1. Kanazawa Tomoko   1. Nomura Minami   1. Tanimoto Ami        1. Kobayashi Honoka

2. Fukumura Mizuki  2. Sasaki Rikako         2. Uemura Akari             2. Hirose Ayaka       2. Asakura Kiki          2.Okamura Minami

3. Oda Sakura          3. Wada Ayaka            3.  Dambara Ruru           3. Inoue Rei             3. Niinuma Kisora     3. Takase Kurumi


#35 shii5

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 06:03 AM

We could give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his ignorance, but I doubt that an actual fraudster will publicly acknowledge that he is committing fraud and unless we talk to this guy in person, he can say anything online through text in my opinion. Also, if he is truly doing this from the goodness of his heart as a favour for European fans, it doesn't explain why he is selling bootleg CDs, uploading H!P music to various digital platforms that is monetize under his company name. UpFront officially uploads their songs to iTunes anyway. If he really wanted to spread H!P music to international fans, he can do so by directing them to their official PVs, iTunes, their online shop, and so on. 



#36 Ares13

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 06:11 AM

just wondering.. is he a fan?
If you break it all up .. what he did is nothing new individually .. just that he is the only one that did it all together ..

For copyrights issues and piracy .. I believe that all of us at any time have done some of these ..
Basically .. in the earlier days of this place .. people start an account here just for free downloads .. it now moved to another place but I believe most continued there ..
There was a time people are just requesting for you to upload stuff and when you refuse .. they will just attack you ..
I believe most of us have rip or record their song out of their You-Tube before ..

Then there is the profiting part ..
I believe at one time or another we have encountered people profiting from out fandom ..
Simple thing like charging a fee to help us buy stuff and even tickets .. and most of the time we put up with it and are happy to pay for it ..
I am not talking about legalized company doing it but individuals who take advantage of their superior positioning ..

Then there are those who does fan sites in order to profit from ads ..
Long time ago .. I ran a translation site for H!P fans ..
The whole thing is done by fans ... I manage and paid for everything .. while the other fans in my country does the web design and translations because I can't do any of those ..
It was a group effort .. and somewhere in between .. someone insist that we put ads to earn something .. I fought against so it didn't happen ..
In the end .. it ended because AKB48 came my country and interest shifted .. and not because we didn't earn anything out of others ..

So if you put copyright issues with profiting from fandom ..
This is what you got ..
whether you do 1 or the other or both .. UF and those deserving wouldn't get the money in any case..
I believe most if not all have done and supported one of the 2 but never both together ..
To me this is wrong .. while we should warn other fans about it and fight against it ..
We should also try to improve ourselves in both areas ..
Because we are only slightly better than this guy .. and when he is gone .. we are the worst after that .. :)

#37 MimiChama

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 06:54 AM

Oh when I talked about my impression of him I never said he wasn‘t a scammer. Like I said, a lot of the things he said don‘t really make sense at all so I don‘t know what his actual headspace looks like - I‘m just asking people to be tactful if they wish to engage, nothing more and nothing less.


Now, about Ares‘ points, I agree to some level, but this is still fundamentally different.

Illegal downloads are a common thing in fandom obviously but at this point many of us have found ways of buying the official goods legally. It wasn‘t always as easy to get releases as it is now and without illegal uploads most of us wouldn‘t be fans because we wouldn‘t have had any access. This doesn‘t make it necessarily lawful or correct but overall I‘d say Up Front benefitted from it.

Speaking of fees to buy stuff- these fees are labour fees. Up Front still gets the full prize for the goods but someone has to do the organizing, buying and shipping which takes time and energy so I don‘t think paying people for that is a rip-off; We even have officially endorsed services like tenso.

Morning Musume Germany also stopped a direct cash line to Up Front by providing his uploads instead (like on itunes and YouTube), so yes, I think this is indeed a new level of illegal activity that we haven‘t seen before.

#38 davidguy3237

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 09:02 AM

I think first and foremost is the fact that he's trying to make money off of people by intentionally disguising himself as a legitimate business, misleading people and literally ripping them off. The amount of effort that he put into this "business" could have been used for something far more sensible and productive. It's obvious that what he's saying to defend himself with is not true. Whether he knows he's lying, or just has completely convinced himself that what he's doing is legitimate is up for debate, though.

 

I'm one to talk, but piracy and the like are an inevitable part of every fandom. That's why it's important to promote the idea of supporting artists you like by actually buying their work if you can afford to.

I think Up-Front absolutely knows about all the illegal uploads that pop up on Youtube, they just turn a blind eye to most of it because they probably know that allowing more people to access their content for free will eventually lead to more fans. There are literally entire concerts up on Youtube, in full, in 4K. Some of those concerts used to be automatically blocked on Youtube. I know because I've tried uploading clips from those concerts before, and they would just get immediately blocked, and now many months later, I'm seeing other people upload them without any problems.

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that Harunan's graduation concert is completely blocked on Youtube, except for a handful of performances

 

When it comes to stuff like having someone buy goods for you, like it was said, people are spending their own time and effort to even bother doing it in the first place. If they think that's worth something, then they have the right to charge something, it's not like you're obligated to use their services, Up-Front isn't losing any money from the deal either way. There are entire businesses that wouldn't exist if there wasn't a demand for such a service. Same goes for fan websites. It costs time and energy and money, so I think it's completely understandable to try and find ways to help mitigate the costs of it all, as long as it's not obnoxiously done. That's why a lot of places have a donation link somewhere. Frankly I'm amazed this forum is still standing, even if half of it just seems to be held together by duct tape at this point.

-------------------------------

 

If someone's still in the mood to spread awareness to the Japanese wotas, it might not hurt to try and get the attention of some of the H!P wota youtubers, most of them are pretty active on Twitter.

 

https://twitter.com/ui_384

https://www.youtube....GfL5IuVu5mjBUYQ

 

https://twitter.com/chorisan_14

https://www.youtube....Ah6anan2WQ2MI9Q

 

https://twitter.com/MchlMil

https://twitter.com/Lulura_Emmie

https://www.youtube....P0wHwic5mwn3mnw

 

https://twitter.com/met_hell

https://www.youtube....zOH_e_l-r4nF_4Q

 

https://twitter.com/wotastation

https://www.youtube....WeNQdVR0vVU7ZDQ



#39 Chiima

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 02:35 PM

In the Facebook post there was a comment from someone asking very detailed, necessary questions (it was in German and translated by Google Translate or some sort, it was mentioned in it) but that post's gone now.
Is that person here? Did you delete it or did it get deleted?

 

 

I've been following this thread (plus the MM one) since this all blew over, and regarding your comment, I think you mean what I talked about. I eventually deleted the comment I had placed on his FB post because I had a guilty conscience towards everything, I still do to a degree. I just feel bad in this sense that he's being harassed by others about what he's doing, and whule yes, he's doing something illegal, wrong and fraudulent, as well as immoral and selfish, I just... I feel bad that he's getting a lot thrown at him.

And yes, I'm aware that he deserves this to a degree and that he should be made aware of his actions and how much it not only hurts the idols we love, but also the fans who want to purchase from such artist. I am aware I should not feel guilty because he is actually in the wrong, but I am generally a person who feels guilt pretty damn easily for the smallest things.

I may comment again soon, when I have time. I may include something about how his actions could cause us to lose a chance at buying things online at a decent price on CDJ, because H!P could easily do something like Avex has done, where they limit what we can buy just because Avex doesn't want an overseas market unless it suits them.



#40 timekiller001^

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 04:31 PM

 

In the Facebook post there was a comment from someone asking very detailed, necessary questions (it was in German and translated by Google Translate or some sort, it was mentioned in it) but that post's gone now.
Is that person here? Did you delete it or did it get deleted?

 

 

I've been following this thread (plus the MM one) since this all blew over, and regarding your comment, I think you mean what I talked about. I eventually deleted the comment I had placed on his FB post because I had a guilty conscience towards everything, I still do to a degree. I just feel bad in this sense that he's being harassed by others about what he's doing, and whule yes, he's doing something illegal, wrong and fraudulent, as well as immoral and selfish, I just... I feel bad that he's getting a lot thrown at him.

And yes, I'm aware that he deserves this to a degree and that he should be made aware of his actions and how much it not only hurts the idols we love, but also the fans who want to purchase from such artist. I am aware I should not feel guilty because he is actually in the wrong, but I am generally a person who feels guilt pretty damn easily for the smallest things.

I may comment again soon, when I have time. I may include something about how his actions could cause us to lose a chance at buying things online at a decent price on CDJ, because H!P could easily do something like Avex has done, where they limit what we can buy just because Avex doesn't want an overseas market unless it suits them.

 

 

Okay, I just thought that he deleted it. No problem then ;-)






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