262 replies to this topic

[IchVermisseDenSommer]

^ What exactly was it I should have responded to? The question how many people experience log-in or registration problems? Where would we get the numbers for this from exactly? It's a little hard for me to not get sarcastic here considering how lightheartedly you talk about a completely random number of 24 users that might face problems even though we know nothing about this whole issue in the first place and on top of that 24 doesn't need to be multiplied by much to get the amount of users that are still active on here. So having 24 users more would be kind of a huge win for this forum.

And why you would think that a twitter poll would lead to clique-y biased results is beyond me. Do you think this only happened to the twt poll or the h!o poll as well? Besides the fact that the fan awards are at most a popularity poll while regarding h!p groups' and members' fans I can't see a peer group behaviour based on particular favs on twt. The clout of a h!p election would also approximately be much bigger than the one of the fan awards. How many people voted in it? 36 or sum?

I do understand that h!o is dear to you in some way and humans are a creature of habit. But the fewer votes we get the less this election represents the intl fandom which is basically the whole fun in this. So instead of resignating and handle things a negative attitude that if people can't be bothered to log-in for this once a year that's their loss let's rather work on what can be done to safe the election.

What did you mean by making it obligatory to sign a vote?

[celestia414]

^Regarding the signing, I think if it's a google forms poll you can make it required that the response be tied to a google account and only one vote per account. People probably could/will still have multiple google accounts, but at least it would discourage people from voting hundreds of times. Or you could require submitting a user name of some kind, I guess either for this forum or twitter, as part of the response. Of course, it would be a pain for anyone to cross-check that those usernames were legit. 

[IchVermisseDenSommer]

^yea user name would also be problematic as you could just add one of some acc randomly tied to jpop/kpop/anime. no one would know it that user actually voted without asking them

[Juandalyn]

Oh, I'm not trying to be negative, using a third party was a legit suggestion. Because what is the problem now? Reaching the majority of fans.

Honestly, spam votes are always a problem if you don't have a system that forbids double-accounts. The question is how to avoid that. And while you could randomly write down any blog it would scare off quite a few spam voters tbh.

(Also I probably wrote it in a weird way, the results wouldn't be clique-y. It's more about the announcement and distribution. I've seen people on tumblr complain that they haven't heard of the poll until after it ended and I fear that this would be the case with the less connected fans on twitter.)

[Fall]

It puts me off even with full legitimacy, with my irrational fear of data entry and loathing of verification emails. Any time I have to enter a name or email into a field for something where I'm not already logged in or don't already have an account, I'm as likely to just close the page. It's why I've skipped out on participating in the fan award vote, as well as not having twitter, instagram, snapchat, etc.  I lurked for ages before even joining H!O.

[IchVermisseDenSommer]

^

^

I'm a little afraid that it wouldn't need to be many spamers. I always feel that even in the h!o poll lots of fake acc with very few votes that haven't read the rules try to tamper with the results in favor of one or two particular members. Though they do it smartly by changing the rest of the top ten votes to other members each time. Which overall would change the overall votes.
So my biggest concern with a third party hosted page would still be using other peoples user names to sign the vote.
My biggest concern with a twt only vote on the other hand would be the counting of the votes (@kaeine: why I suggested we might make a moch election now just to get a feel for it).
Oh and certainly the first year people would miss it. Tho when it comes to the h!o election people really shouldn't complain about it. I read a similar comment on twt as well and honestly this election takes place for years now always at the end of the year.
I think sharing wise doing it on twt or a third party hosting page would be quite similar. You can always share the link to third platforms. I'm still leaning towards a twt only poll tbh also regaring the sharing of it bc at least the twt community would probably more eager to do so when they could see the submitted votes. And a platform bound page has more identification potential for the people. But that's just my feeling.
At the end of the day I just want it to be as big and with as few fake votes as possible.

[shii5]

I agree that there will always be the risk of cheaters trying to tamper the votes, and I think a way to counter it is for the moderator (and/or a team) to monitor the incoming ballots that come in. If there are any spikes for a specific member in a period of time, or similar ballot (ie. It's going to be very slim for two or more people to rank the same girls in the same order), reach out and confirm. But I think the rules that keaine and minaeshi has as requirements like account age, post activity, etc to participate is a good way to try to prevent against cheaters. 

[Fall]

I guess I never did do an analysis or comparison after getting distracted by distressed Karin wota in Japan.

 

Group

Spoiler

1st Morning Musume。'18 - 26.9% (-15.9%)
2nd Tsubaki Factory - 26.2% (+16.4%)
3rd Juice=Juice - 17.2% (+1.4%)
4th ANGERME - 16.6% (+2.1%)
5th Country Girls - 6.9% (+4.6%)
6th Kobushi Factory - 6.2% (+3.9%)
7th BEYOOOOONDS - 0.0% (NEW)

 

My vote: Angerme

 

It came down to one vote.

 

I was very close to voting Tsubaki myself. If not for 46okunen LOVE being a thing this year, my vote would have gone to Tsubaki instead of Angerme. I have to wonder if Tsubaki would have closed the gap or if MM would have pulled ahead more if that had also been a point distribution. It's odd to think about how these types of determinations can be made on a yearly basis since Morning Musume is still my top group and Tsubaki is still only my #5, but based only on this year, MM wouldn't have even placed above J=J in my personal year-end ranking.

 

 

Singer

Spoiler

1st Oda Sakura 52 votes
2nd Dambara Ruru 32 votes
3rd Takagi Sayuki 29 votes

 

My vote: Takagi Sayuki

 

I voted for Takagi this time and last year, but I think I've voted for Oda a couple of years ago as well. I've loved Ruru's voice since the moment she joined the KSS and once had a self-imposed restriction against commenting on KSS threads until she either debuted or left, so it's no surprise to me at all that she also did well. With J=J membership shrinking and the possibility of more concentrated line distribution, there's as good a chance as any that by the end of the year, she could be taking a vote that I may have otherwise given to Sakura or Sayuki again.

 

 

Dancer

1st Inaba Manaka 80 votes
2nd Ishida Ayumi 29 votes

 

Spoiler

 

Yeah.

 

 

Visual

Spoiler

1st Sato Masaki 25 votes
2nd Makino Maria 21 votes
3rd Iikubo Haruna 15 votes
4th Uemura Akari 12 votes

 

My vote: Kanazawa Tomoko

 

I was the lone vote for Kanatomo. The poll category prompted me to add a Visual section to my profile lists to do justice for those that couldn't get my vote. The final result matches what I've noticed to be fairly representative of others' perspectives here, but I admit that my own are a bit different since none of the placing members were in my list. If it were down to picking a visual for just Morning Musume, I'd have a difficult time making a determination between Ayumi and Eripon most days.

 

 

Newcomer

Spoiler

1st Yamazaki Yuhane 24 votes -tie-
1st Kiyono Momohime 24 votes -tie-
3rd Takase Kurumi 16 votes
4th Okamura Minami 15 votes
5th Nishida Shiori 14 votes -tie
5th Shimakura Rika 14 votes -tie-
7th Maeda Kokoro 11 votes
8th Ichioka Reina 10 votes
9th Eguchi Saya 8 votes

 

My vote: Yamazaki Yuhane

 

I'm glad to be one of the votes that got Yuhane to tie for first. I debated whether my vote should go to Yuhane or Takase, and my bias for Takase is one that I've also had for years now, but fair is fair. I've honestly been impressed with all of them this year, which is why many have improved so much in my own rankings. There's still a newness to this supergroup that may eventually settle and bring Momohime back up near the top of my list, but for now, I can't wait to learn more about all of them.

 

 

KSS

Spoiler

1st Matsunaga Riai 64 votes
2nd Yonemura Kirara 59 votes
3rd Kanemitsu Ruru 55 votes

 

My Vote
Best KSS:
+3 Yonemura Kirara
+2 Horie Kizuki
+1 Kanatsu Mizuki

 

My top vote for Kirara matches my vote for who I wanted to see get a push last year.  Among current members, Nakayama Natsume would have been my +2, and although my amusement with Yuliya's attempts to improve creates a present fascination, my +1 would have gone to Riai if not for a dutiful need to give credit to those we lost from the program. I would have felt it to be a great injustice if I weren't able to give points to Horie or Kanatsu, so I'm thankful that this was a point distribution. I felt bad enough that I couldn't give points to Inoue Hikaru, but I wanted Kanatsu to at least be on the board.

 

Idol

Spoiler

Result:
1st Sato Masaki
2nd Yokoyama Reina
3rd Oda Sakura
4th Iikubo Haruna
5th Wada Ayaka
6th Inaba Manaka
7th Ishida Ayumi
8th Murota Mizuki
9th Yanagawa Nanami
10th Makino Maria

 

My vote:
+10 Sato Masaki (1st)
+9 Oda Sakura (3rd)
+8 Nonaka Miki (15th)
+7 Inoue Rei (19th)
+6 Ishida Ayumi (7th)
+5 Funaki Musubu (13th tie)
+4 Kawamura Ayano (43rd)
+3 Ikuta Erina (22nd)
+2 Miyamoto Karin (24th tie)
+1 Inaba Manaka (6th)

 

Maa-chan aside, my rankings did not mirror the top results nearly as much as it did last year. I'm one of those guilty of not having very much of a differentiation in how far apart my rankings are outside of my top 4, and so in many ways, I'm thankful for the sorter. My top four will be fairly static, but the rest of my top 20 will jockey for position on any given day. Even Murota, who regularly makes it into my 5th place position, did not make it into my point distribution for December. The only near-certainties these days are that Ayumi and Musubu will be somewhere in the top 10. What I eventually use in my decision when it comes to who ranks where on any given day is basically down to determining which thread it would hurt least to lose based on my current interests if I were only allowed to view the content of one member's thread on that day.

 

That almost makes my vote for Maa-chan seem like a truism, for as much as it seems to be shared by many who frequent the boards. It can cause some interesting placement changes on some days though, particularly when anything interesting is happening for a group or particular member. It also means that as far as general rankings in H!P history go, the longer Maa-chan is in the group, the more likely it will be that I eventually have to change my favorite idol listing from Ai-chan to Masaki.

[洋hiromi水]

I've never realized Yokoyan was so popular on here. I expected Maa-chan on top, but Yokoyan surprised me!

 

Looking at the spreadsheet, you can see she's been voted in the top 3 positions not much more often than other girls like Maria or Mizuki, and less often than 3rd place Sakura and 4th place Harunan. However, she got the second most votes in total. So her 4 to 10 position votes turned out to be more than the other girls, hence her high number of ranking. It's interesting!

 

She's not in my top 10 but she's adorable and totally deserves it. I hope she sees these results somewhere! 

 

Also, thank you as always to minaeshi for doing this. 

[minaeshi]

^Thank you kindly, but also thank kaeine! I'm pretty much just a host, he does the majority of the work and this years elections would not have run smoothly if not for his participation! 

 

Urm about twitter polls... I've been on twitter for years and i've seen the H!P community there grow at the same rate that H!O has fallen. Literally all my past friends who no longer use H!O or tumblr are still active H!P fans on twitter, and most of them say the reason being is that the community is bigger and more welcoming on twitter, as well as it being easier to discuss and receive information in real time. The decline in H!O is something i've been actively trying to prevent for a while now but... One user out of how many thousand isn't enough to keep a whole forum afloat, especially when that user isn't even mod status lol. I've kinda accepted that doing the H!O elections, or posting more news on the news feed (that no one responds to but complain about the lack of post despite not uploading any themselves...  ), and keeping threads looking neat and updated, just doesn't cut it. The amount of users get less and less every day. When Riho announced her graduation the forum had at least 2-300 active users online (not included guests). With Harunan's grad, not even 50 active users. Dare I mention Yuka's? rip. 

When something happens in H!P people don't flock to this forum to discuss anymore, they predominantly go to twitter, so IA the best way to gather the biggest pool of international h!p fans votes is to do a twitter 'general election'. How we'll do it, i'm not sure lol. I know it would take a lot of work, and the chances of fake votes will increase, but these things happen. If we (me and keaine or anyone else who may want to offer their help) decide to go through with it then we'll keep you posted 

[Danes83]

After i read the Japanese reaction in 5ch (2ch), there are some conclusion by Japanese fans about overseas choice :
- Maachan is extremely popular in overseas too, they didn't expect.
- They didn't get it, why Yokoyan is popular & rank high. They preferred Kaedy or Chii-chan over Yokoyan, some people said she's annoying. For me Yokoyan is funny, cheerful and interesting especially with her big smile.
- Again, they're wondering why Karin is accepted low in the rank, but Manaka very high.
- Tsubaki fever also perceived high overseas beside in Japan. They even predict Tsubaki will go overseas
- Japanese fans amazed by how well overseas fans know the Kenshuu members (hey, we're watching them closely)

Always interesting to see the two world towards hello project

[Juandalyn]

I mean 2nd place is pretty surprising for sure, but Yokoyan in general ticks off all the marks as a good idol, doesn't she? Cute with a great smile.

I guess Chisaki falls into the "Karin-trap" - too perfect (though lacking in the vocal department). She has a decent amount of fans on H!O though.

[keaine]

One thing with Twitter is that it links you more to H!P themselves and the Japanese H!P fandom also.

[IchVermisseDenSommer]

@Juandalyn: I forgot to thank you tfor how our conversation turned completely polite again. So thank you!

@minaeshi: I'm eager to help you guys out if you're switching to twt.
So how can I help you?

Besides that I was already thinking abt the problems you guys could face and thinking about possible solutions. I assume you'd make an extra account for the election? In that case maybe it would be good to tell people that their first vote would be final and after the vote was counted they'd be muted for the rest of the election (you could always give the real handles of the organizers in case stuff came up). By muting every counted vote the remaining vote list would probably be much easier to handle since twt loves to mess with the order of replies over time based on the likes and new replies they get.
Also in case someone didn't read the rules and tried to correct their vote by simply replying to the OP again with some comment it wouldn't get accidentally counted.

[keaine]

We'd have to recreate an account every year then (unless someone wants to unmute hundreds of accounts in one go).

 

But the main problem about "how do we promote it impartially?" still remains.

[IchVermisseDenSommer]

Since there's a muted list I had no problem with doing so.
I can't really understand your qualms here since there aren't any group or member threads. Just H!P fans. I'm expecting this to make the round among everyone and their mother during the voting period.
And as long as the big accounts like Vincekun, Vince, Javiera and ainogundan rt it once if we're lucky? Also who exactly is responsible for the Hello news Account on twt?

[Laharle]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I always had the impression that even when you either loved her or disliked her, Maa-chan was always more popular overseas than in Japan? So I'm surprised they are surprised by her ranking tbh

[Juandalyn]

@Juandalyn: I forgot to thank you tfor how our conversation turned completely polite again. So thank you!

 

I honestly have apologise for turning it sour in the first place. Your concerns are justified and twitter is a growing fandom after all. Sorry.

[celestia414]

I mean 2nd place is pretty surprising for sure, but Yokoyan in general ticks off all the marks as a good idol, doesn't she? Cute with a great smile.

I guess Chisaki falls into the "Karin-trap" - too perfect (though lacking in the vocal department). She has a decent amount of fans on H!O though.

Personally, my problem with Chisaki is less that she's too perfect and more that it just seems so clear how much she prefers Country Girls to Morning Musume. I mean, I get that she might feel that way, but it doesn't seem like the other Country Girl transplants still seem so uncomfortable in their new groups as she does, and it's kind of off-putting to me.

[mizukingdom1]

That's so true with Chii. Look at the H!P concerts and she is smiling so much when performing with CG but she she is performing with MM she looks like she is just doing it because she has to.