412 replies to this topic

[Nayok-Kihara]

Something I want to ask, after we have the results, why do some of the H!O members here say "not bad", etc, when comparing to the end results? Like is it suppose to be bad if you like different girls than what the majority likes? I don't get it lol.

I don't think anyone means to imply that it's bad to like a member that isn't highly ranked at the end, but moreso that they're generally pleased with where the girls on their lists did end up ranking.

[Fall]

So what are the Japanese wota saying about Nonaka Miki and her high ranking? I also wish to have a category for the KSS.

 

They don't seem too surprised with Miki's placement.  They've mentioned her NHK appearances, utilization on the Up Front Link facebook page, videos in English, and time in the west, so the general sentiment is that they've been somewhat successful with pushing Miki as the global member.

 

I'm still reading through the thread from time to time and some of them are stil trying to parse through the finer details of the results.  A lot of the thread though is still antis trying to explain away why some members scored so high, why their favorites didn't, calling members fat/ugly/plain, or comparing Yokoyama's popularity to a perceived association with Zukki.  Normal anonymity on message board stuff.  They do seem to finally be open to the idea that Zukki's popularity was because of her smile and character though rather than being "American-sized" after seeing Yokoyan's rank.

 

Otherwise, I've learned a few more words I wish I hadn't and found at least one user that watches our members' youtube videos.

[EtherSword]

^Yeah, those are all good reasons why Nonaka placed so high, glad they understand that then lol.

 

^^But I don't think it should matter where their rankings lie at since it is your individual favorites. I guess you are saying people were hoping that their favorites would be like everyone else's? As to why we get "not bads or fairly bad" when their rankings are close or too different?

[IchVermisseDenSommer]

^

No I think it's more of the sentiment that you want everyone to notice how great your favs are so you check your list and when they did great it's "not bad". 

[Fall]

A lot of people just enjoy knowing that others enjoy something they do, have similar likes, or that their own interests are somewhat representative of the general fandom.  As big as the unpopular opinion topic has become, most people still like to have the popular opinion.

[keaine]

 

So what are the Japanese wota saying about Nonaka Miki and her high ranking? I also wish to have a category for the KSS.

 

They don't seem too surprised with Miki's placement.  They've mentioned her NHK appearances, utilization on the Up Front Link facebook page, videos in English, and time in the west, so the general sentiment is that they've been somewhat successful with pushing Miki as the global member.

 

I'm still reading through the thread from time to time and some of them are stil trying to parse through the finer details of the results.  A lot of the thread though is still antis trying to explain away why some members scored so high, why their favorites didn't, calling members fat/ugly/plain, or comparing Yokoyama's popularity to a perceived association with Zukki.  Normal anonymity on message board stuff.  They do seem to finally be open to the idea that Zukki's popularity was because of her smile and character though rather than being "American-sized" after seeing Yokoyan's rank.

 

Otherwise, I've learned a few more words I wish I hadn't and found at least one user that watches our members' youtube videos.

 

tbh there aren't that much antis, compared to what I've been accustomed to.

[Fall]

That makes me kind of glad I normally avoid those types of message boards if this is considered a downtick.  

[yeahman]

@page11

 

Actually I was trying to say I didn't see Maachan's appeal. I know of her mass appeal in Japan and outside, but yea I can't empathise. I mean it's great that yall love her and great for her too, just not my cup of tea lol 

 

But thank's for the effortful reply though!

[I am 10th]

Best Performer category is not merely framed in singing and dancing, much large factor of it is more on combi of stage presence and gimmicks (charisma, aura, signature style and moves, facial expressions and gestures, and how she interacts/stimulates the audience during a song) Because many idols are praised for it, like, rather than saying "She's a good singer/dancer," they say "She's cool on stage," "She's captivating." "Can't take my eyes off her" "The gap between her on stage and her personality when not performing is amazing," "Her facial expressions thruout the song are touching" or simply "She's a good performer!" etc etc. regardless of how good the girl at singing or dancing, she's still noticed greatly on stage. On the other hand, some good singers and dancers are meh to watch on stage. 

I think most people know this already and it's not vague. No one complained about it too in last year's election.

Not gonna mention the known best performers, but I think some girls like Rikako and Yokoyama fit this category. 

 

The difference of it from Best Idol cat. is it doesn't encompass the girl's personality off stage, and her other non-performing antics such as the way she speaks or behaves when she's just casually hanging out with others or answering an interview, her manners/risms that are likable or amusing to fans, her way of thinking and interests, hobbies, favorites, plus her visual appeal. which can be the simple reasons combined why fans choose her as their oshi or Best Idol, maybe because they relate themselves to what idols do or think, since idol isn't just about performing on stage. 

 

I don't think voters here tend to think that their favorites are automatically the best performer because I saw many who cast different names for their +10 from their Best performer, last year. I even saw someone voted a member for Best Performer but not listed in her +1 to 10 names.

It just so happened that the top 3 or 4 are really good performers, but that skill doesn't define them broadly enough for Best idol cat., generally speaking.   

[minaeshi]

Cough* 

 

I've seen more people complain about the Performance category being removed than it being there in the first place... 

Tell you what, toward the end of the year (say around mid october), we can do a quick poll on if we should add the category back in or not, so that we can actually see what people think. I know a lot of you have opinions that you want to share but don't and decide to lurk here instead, but I wan't you guys to have a say as well so it's not just a case of "the loudest majority wins". Then we can discuss and decide on what H!O users actually want to see in the polls. The only category we simply refuse to do is the Best Pairing category for the reason Keaine stated above. If you want a category for that feel free to make your own poll, we're not gonna sit and count 3000+ possible pairing lmao.

 

How does that sound? 

[honeyharunanfan]

I think it's for the best to have less categories, so I understood why Best Performer was ditched. And I agree about potentially renaming the Idol you want to push category to something simpler.

[keaine]

^x2 of course, you won't hear much "yeah, you did well removing the best performer category" ^^

 

I think we should collect all suggestions: which category would you like to add (as 5th category)? and then we'll do a vote on these. That said, Minaeshi and I won't take into account any suggested category we consider either too hard to proceed or too specific to have enough votes (so we would accept "best performer"). If we don't know (like for "best KSS"), then we'll take it.

 

tbh I'd like to have a rotating 5th category, because that's more fun for everyone to know how you think about different aspects of being an idol. So I think we should do this vote on categories every year.

[keaine]

JUST A LITTLE ANNOUNCEMENT ON MY OWN

 

There was something bugging us a bit about the 2017 vote: how to read °C-ute's results. Like, we all loved them, but the problem is, they've disbanded, and I know a lot of you didn't vote for them for that reason, so that even if they achieved kind of well for a group which doesn't exist anymore (sorry), we can't really analyse their votes very well.

Also, if we want to make 2017-2018 comparisons, I think we should have a 2017 result which doesn't include °C-ute. That's especially true for the group vote, so:

 

If you voted for °C-ute or Buono! as your best group in 2017, could you tell me for which group you would have voted for if they weren't eligible? "I wouldn't have voted for any group" is also an option. I think we'd have a better understanding of how H!P is structured today. The point of this isn't to exclude °C-ute. The result of the group vote is the result for all of 2017, in half of which °C-ute was still there, and that won't change anything. What I'd like to understand is how the groups are faring as of now, or in short, where did °C-ute fans go?

To answer my question, please post a message in this thread or send me a PM (private message, not prime minister...). If you've changed your name between the time you voted and now, please add the name you had when casting your vote.

 

That may be a bit late, and I'm not sure I'll get a lot of replies. If I don't, then I'll drop this altogether.

[GetRapper]

I think a lot of people don't understand all of the work that goes into these elections, I mean, I helped with the UFP female poll and even with it being less popular. it was a LOT of work.  I can't imagine all the time and effort that was put in for this one.

 

It's a very good idea to have a general consensus for the categories though, it would help garner interest and maybe more volunteers to help out.

[keaine]

^ it's not that much effort, really ^^

 

Because there've been several polls on H!O this year, I'll tell how I counted the votes:

 

I have a spreadsheet. In the "votes" sheet, I copy each voter's name, vote, with all of their categories. I also keep track on the number of the post on the thread.

Then I coded some macros. What these macros do is taking the votes sheet and counting automatically the votes. The most difficult part is the Best Idol vote, since the voting system here is particular. Then I have the points, the ranking, and other interesting data, such as the evolution from last year. These macros also detect when a vote isn't valid, like when a name is put twice, or when the user voted for a non-eligible idol. I also detect when two "best idol" votes are the same, because if the case happens (it's never happened so far), I'll suspect a mutiple account. If you do the maths, the probabiity of two "Best Idol" votes to be the same are 0.000000000000000007%, so yeah, I'm being suspicious ^^.

And there I have it, the only thing I have to check is "did I report the votes properly?", then with a few mouse clicks, the results are here. That's why we've been able to present preliminary results and the final results in a day or two. The reason why we split the results announcements in four was to emphasise them. Like if we'd just announce all of the results altogether, I'm sure people would only talk about the Best Idol vote and completely forget about the rest, especially the group vote, which I found very interesting to follow.

 

I've taken a bit of time to make the macros, but once they were done, things went way quicker. In fact, I already made the macros for the 2016 vote, and I had few changes to make for the 2017 vote. So yeah, if you want macros to make your counting (waaay) quicker, I'll be more than pleased to discuss that by PM.

 

I had to make some changes to cope with the new voting rule with this "final vote system". There are two reasons why we've implemented it:

1) If you want to cast a vote but you're not entirely sure of the ranking, then you can still cast it without making it final, and then modify it later. With the old system, you couldn't vote if your vote wasn't final, and you may forget to vote altogether, so that's one less vote for us.

2) I can't review 218 votes after the end of the voting period in such a short period of time, so with the "final vote" thing, you're making things easier for me. That is, I won't come back to your vote because I know you won't change it. So at the end of the voting period, I only had to check non final votes (there were like around 20) to see if the vote's changed.

That's why we asked you to edit your post rather than making a new one if you wanted to change your vote, because it's much easier for me. I have more trouble finding which vote the new vote was going to replace than just checking out the votes at the end in the same post to see the changes.

The "preliminary results" were there to motivate you to post final votes, because, yeah, I wasn't sure a lot of you would do that.

[Touki]

Chill! Those polls about best singer or best dancer are just for fun, nothing objective about it. Take a look at these results: (voted in 2017)

The results are always subjective, and fans always want their favorites to win. If these results are objective, then there won't be a big gap between 1st and 2nd in Best Singer category, and Maachan never ranks 5th in Best Dancer category, even above veteran dancers like Maimi or Chii-chan. Even Senbatsu Elections of 48 groups are subjective

[celestia414]

Regarding Miki, she went up significantly in rank on the Japanese poll as well. Yes, she did better here, but I think part of it isn't just the English stuff. Part of it is that she's started getting a lot more lines and spotlight this year.

 

I also agree that a category for favorite KSS would be good. I think there are enough people who follow them to get a meaningful result. And I'd agree that "Best Pair" is kind of too messy, too many possibilities. Also, personally it really annoys me when every time two girls seem to be friends everyone starts spinning fantasies of "OMG they are totally a lesbian couple!". In almost all these situations that's not really the case unless like 95% of h!p members are lesbians (and dumb enough to publicly date someone else in the company)

[EtherSword]

@IchVermisse and Fallacia, I understand at least that, cause I also got a happy feeling when Nonaka Miki placed high but having a level of some sort of disappointment that their favorites are too different from everyone else's just seems odd, maybe it is one of those cases where people don't really take in pride of their own individual favorites here.

 

How many categories are you guys willing to add? Or should we save that discussion for another time?

 

@I am 10th, that is exactly what I think of when it comes to "best performer" when we are to describe that category. I'd like to have more categories cause I like seeing statistics and polls but if we had to choose one, I'd go with having a category for KSS, I think that matters more and it could help get some people to learn about the KSS.

[Lalalaalala]

^ Everyone takes pride in their faves, they just wanna see them do well, it's pretty simple actually if someone feels sad at their faves lack of popularity it has to do with a disappointment that people aren't seeing what they are seeing. 

[keaine]

I think five categories is a good number. Six is a bit messy imo.

 

And I forgot a detail: the categories you submit should only be related to the members of H!P, like the song poll will continue to be separated from this poll for example.