15 replies to this topic

[cdean12343]

I would like to ask forum members (especially MM fans) how they feel MM distinguished itself apart from other groups.

 

Between the time of Yaguchi and Aika, I noticed that Morning Musume had an very likable 'feel' when compared to other groups such as AKB48.

 

What is it that created this unique 'MM feel'? How were the girls different from the girls of other groups? How was the music, PVs, activity videos, video production/editing, etc. different?

 

If someone asked you to create a JPop group that recreated the full experience of MM, what elements would be needed? What kind of procedures/strategies/philosophies do you think the original directors followed?

 

Thanks

[Snipey]

The thing that made MM so popular back then was the number of members they had with such diverse personalities. Someone for every fan, their songs were also pretty fun and had everyone going crazy for.

Over time even though their popularity decreased, the thing that most fans liked about them was their talent in singing and dancing live, something which some fans thought AKB were not capable of doing because their management or production teams making them lip-synch in most shows.

AKB has a lot going for them in terms of fan service and interacting a lot with fans which is how or one part of them in becoming popular as well as being backed up by a pretty important and famous company, pretty much why they were on every music and variety show. Now that they have made a name for themselves they are easily recognisable which was just how MM was back 10 or so years ago, everyone knowing who they were and even to the extent of what type of character they had.

 

At the moment the girls are going up the ranks in popularity as people do tend to recognise them for their dance and singing abilities as their predecessors, however they still need to keep a strong grasp on letting people know who exactly each member is.

 

For me I was attracted to the group because of their characters and overtime I really enjoyed how powerful their lives were which I feel has carried on even to the new gen, though there are still some weak singers even someone like Ikuta and Akane have really improved in these few years they have been in the group.

 

This of course is just my opinion.

[cdean12343]

For me, I think the biggest difference was that MM girls seemed to be more friendly and cute, and the production was quite lively and vibrant. There was a kind of youthful and fun feel to the group. AKB48 always stood out as a more mature and sexy group that tried to be more professional with the higher budget PVs.

[cdean12343]

Would anyone else like to share their opinion?

[Fall]

I think Tsunku said it best.  To paraphrase, "Hello! Project isn't a product.  It's a production."

 

Morning Musume in particular has been closely managed with that kind of mindset for so long, it has done a lot for the atmosphere of the group even after Tsunku mostly stepped aside.  It's still a business, first and foremost, but there remains a level of artistic integrity that's maintained and goes beyond just trying to make another yen.  Even if something is good for business, that doesn't necessarily mean it's good for H!P or Morning Musume, and that's a guideline that has been maintained for decades now.  In the end, they are not only just trying to sell you CDs or tickets.  They're not just trying to sell you photobooks and merchandise.  They're not even trying to sell you on the girls themselves.  All of that is just a vehicle to create an experience, and that experience is the real product.

[sukibeam]

^ I personally believe Tsunku as producer is what really set them apart. Tsunku is such a diverse man who, as content creator, was willing to try wacky things and write songs and lines about the most off-the-wall things ("sexy biscuit", the entire Rainbow Pink song, everything from Mini Moni's early years). He's a man that sees the world through a different pair of eyes, and that was reflected in the content that came out of H!P as a whole.

 

During Platinum Era, they also gained a reputation for being more "Pro" than "idol", seeing as the vocal and dance demands got tougher. As more and more groups came on the scene touting "personality" and doing handshakes (at a time H!P seemed to refuse the idea), I believe that is what made them "different" to a casual person. You either got Heavy Rotation-like idolly songs or Emo-Musume. Even today, other idol groups still admire MM for their ability to sing while doing their difficult choreographies. 

 

Anyway, my $0.02

[cdean12343]

 

All of that is just a vehicle to create an experience, and that experience is the real product.

 

Yes, I feel the same way. There was one thing that Tsunku said that caught my attention, and shows his philosophy for how he sees MM. Here is what he said to Junjun and Linlin as they were accepted:

 

" The concept will be smiling, energy and fun. "

 

I think that summaries the MM feel quite a lot.

[☆RisaReinaSayu☆]

The question baffles me as I don't think MM was ever especially different from other girl groups. They borrowed many of the things that made them a hit from idol groups (big and small) of the 1980s to the point where they were accused of being almost a carbon copy of Onyanko Club in particular back in the Golden Era. You could argue that they did it better than the groups they borrowed concepts and formulas from, but Morning Musume is the only big name idol group who I know of that has ever been a huge success in the eyes of the public (from 2000-2006) and then also a huge failure in their eyes (2007-2012).

Certainly they had carved their niche and that allowed them to survive throughout the tail end of their Eclipse Era and all of their Platinum Era and the transition period to the Colorful Era that followed, but aside from being managed by people who knew how to play the game and then seemingly chose to stop playing the game and let the group fall by the wayside and sink and now being managed by people who fall somewhere between playing the game all in and only playing it halfheartedly the Colorful Era has only been something we hadn't seen from MM or other idol groups before in terms of the overly present EDM sound and excessive focus on formation dances.

And even this can't be labeled truly original or unique to them since formation dances are a big part of the appeal of Korean girl groups especially their more influential ones like SNSD and KARA, and the EDM sound was made into a big deal by Perfume before it was picked up by MM. Also even though they've made some semblance of headway during their Colorful Era to return to prominence it's all been very superficial at best.

Their sales figures look nicer on paper than those of the Eclipse Era and Platinum Era, but they are pulling those figures not because of their own talents but rather because the people managing them finally jumped onto the handshake train and made the effort to mend the bridges they'd burned. I will say though that I believe MM's greatest asset is their ability to survive whether their lineup is big or small. The people in charge of them seem willing to look after them pretty well financially speaking and rather disinclined to disbanding the group.

Because they've set the group up as one that usually performs live all they have to do is ensure they recreate the possibility for MM to be praised as being more like an actual musical artist than an idol group when there is a lull in public interest and decline in sales figures and wait it out until the public is ready for MM to go full blown idol again. At the very least I can see MM lasting long enough to go through multiple periods where everyone speaks of how they'd be better off disbanded only to seemingly miraculously bounce back just as many times and crossing the milestone of 50 million records sold.

[(AZN)animedude]

One of the things MM managed to do was be a quality girl group/set the standard for it.  It's why many people (even those in AKB) grew up dreaming of being a Morning Musume member.  Tsunku also had a lot to do with it, because he literally was H!P, did songwriting, did production, did all of that.

 

It's hard though honestly to say exactly what it was that drew me in, but I do kind of know what started drawing me away, i.e. all of the members i was a fan of started just graduating/becoming the old guard and the new ones just didn't interest me that much (that possibly just because i'm getting older now LOL).  But i can't even say what it was about the members that were leaving that interested me so much/made me want to support them.

[cdean12343]

It's hard though honestly to say exactly what it was that drew me in, but I do kind of know what started drawing me away, i.e. all of the members i was a fan of started just graduating/becoming the old guard and the new ones just didn't interest me that much

 

Right! And that's exactly how I feel. I feel as though the girls changed, and the quality and style of what they produced changed also.

 

I have no doubt that I would still love MM if the new members were consistently like the previous ones, but they weren't. On top of that, the Alo Hellos got worse/boring, the songs became lower quality 'modern' songs, and the PVs also got simplified.

 

Something definitely changed in management for MM to change this much.  MM went from something that felt like I would design, with girls I would choose, to basically... a completely different group with girls that are (to me) uninteresting.

 

And now here I am desperately trying to find another music group that can take me back to what MM used to be. So far haven't found it.

 

Any tips?

[Lurkette]

There are hundreds of other idol groups out there. It shouldn't be too hard to find one that suits your tastes. Peruse through the general idol section on this forum, look through recommended videos on YouTube, etc.

[Moondoggie]

It was simply timing with the original MM and the golden era, MM and H!P flooded a relatively dead market with new idols and were able to pick up a large chunk of an audience that were waiting for new idols. They were spurred on by TV shows and endorsements from popular TV personalities at the time who worked hard to get the members over to the audience. All that exposure made them mainstream and that = sales. Tsunku as producer was a calculated move, not only could he churn out the songs but he was a well known name at the time and had connections. 

They were not really anything different, they made good choices for members and trained them as personalities but they were still playing to an empty market and flooding it with their own brand of idols. The cracks began really showing when that market was flooded with new groups and they were no longer all that interesting to the audience. It's way different now there are new groups rising everywhere and new waves of idol coming forward and changing the game. AKB remains on top of the mainstream market though and they stayed on top even in a crowded marketplace. Probably down to a producer who knows idols inside out and has tons of connections, he even was quite influential in helping get MM big in the golden era as I recall he was producing Utaban during that time.  

[Kinjiru]

1: In an industry filled with fabricated groups and characters, the older groups in H!P feel very natural in comparison (Tsubaki and Kobushi not so much...I feel a barrier there). The members, and in particular Morning and Juice imo, really understand the fans and also realize that they're loved within the group for the way they are, and not because they're forming some kind of artificial character. They don't feel "forced" and unlike back in the Golden Era, Up Front doesn't seem to care about presenting them as anything other than themselves either, as long as they are entertaining and find their place within the group (and even if they aren't funny they still get a pass, lol). There is a deep trust and gratefulness between the fans and members that I don't see with other groups out there, in which it's mostly a one sided love from the fans. When the current Musume express their gratitude for all the support and give speeches it feels absolutely genuine. A good example is the speech Mizuki gave at the 20th anniversary. Not only was she crying her way to it, she simply said that the staff told her to think about and say what their goal is in the upcoming year, which she admit she doesn't know. Normally, this would be a big no no for an idol group and you can't say something like that, especially as the leader and with media present, as it makes it seem like the group has no direction. Mizuki felt comfortable enough to state her honest opinion in front of all the fans however, and knows they would understand. I've also heard members like Oda say "I think the fans would actually prefer this.." and they're always spot on. It feels like they understand us better than even the staff. In my opinion it's a great thing that they are under less pressure and not as big as back in the old days as it gives the members breathing room and the opportunity to just enjoy their time in the group and be themselves. If they are forced to change the way they are because the staff tells them the fans won't like them else wise this would cause a needless rift between the idol and their fans.

 

2: The songs. Unlike many other groups they have a large variety of songs and there are plenty of good ones among them. It's not all typical 'idol songs' (hell, those are in the minority). I often do all-night karaoke with a friend of mine who is a fan of some other big groups out there that I won't name, and nearly all the songs he sings sound the same. Meanwhile I sing H!P songs and jump from EDM to rock to cutesy to latin pop to retro and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

[hallowen]

This what make different MM or H!P ( Tsunku ) and Akb group (Akimoto yasushi) http://wezz-y.com/archives/49791

[JennyInTokyo]

I feel like what made Morning Musume successful in the past was their music and how it complimented the members and their personalities. From the Golden Era you had all of these wide variety of songs that went from mature to silly and you got to see the members personalities as well as their singing and dancing skills and I think from that TV shows were interested in them and they could also promote themselves as members and group. Then suddenly we get to the Platinum Era, and even though I loved that era, sadly it focused more on the girls being seasoned performers rather than showcasing their personalities through fun music because all of their singles were very mature. And I think that may have went towards lower single sales and sadly there wasn't much personality in that line up that TV shows wanted  to see. Luckily in the Colorful Era they managed to find some sort of niche with the formation dances and the EDM genre alongside Sayu's leadership and kind of giving H!P the kick up the butt to get better promotion which sadly went back down again when Sayu graduated. From there Morning Musume did get invited to shows but they were mainly performances because they were known for their formation dances and that's what people wanted to see. I know the current line up have a great set of personalities but they don't get the opportunities in performances and PVs to showcase that because management always wants them to be so professional. Sadly it doesn't allow TV and promoters to see their potentials as personalities and give them the platform to showcase it. I might be completely wrong but that's just my opinion when I look at it.

[Satur]

 The different (IMO) is that (plus all you said) Morning Musume knows and respect her heritage. When Yuko Nakazawa was with the current group, she was amazed because the girls still do the same cheer before the concert than the original five created 20 years ago. Like a precious treasure, the members inherit that from her senpais, that inherit it from her senpais, and so untill the creation of that  feature.

 

 If you save the good things your senpais left to you and riches it with new things of your own that your kohais can treasure too, no doubt you can made great goals.