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Has H!P given up on starting new acts with kids?


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#1 hanawopun

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 10:06 PM

It seems that the early 2000's was when a bunch of children (like 12 and under) groups like Berryz Kobo and C-ute began plus with some young shuffles like ZYX for instance.  How come we haven't seen any more of such beyond the rather limited "Egg" performers which are only a side breeding ground.  S/mileage was quite young to start with but even that was a while ago.  Has it been more difficult with legal contracts or do you think they've discovered it's not worth starting so young?


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#2 IchVermisseDenSommer

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:04 PM

It's just not something that actually sells I think. The majority of people that are interested in children doing music are mostly children themselves that have no money to fund stuff and sleazy old men that are into children in a much different way. Also it's much more difficult I guess with the schooling going on and the girls being more dependent on their parents. So they have less freedom to do extra work like tv stuff and shootings and such. 
Also over the last couple of years the age when an idols popularity peaks has went up. I think it starts at 17 nowadays and goes well into their 20s quite often. 
So there really is no point in doing the k

Kids thing again besides that it was really nice for us being able to see the girls growths within C-ute and Berryz. 

We still have the generation based groups though? Kassa being 12 when she started, MaaDuu... and I'm sure MM will add someone really young again. Though it really surprised me that we didn't get a middle schooler for 13ki. So who knows.


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#3 Juandalyn

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:16 PM

I think they've changed a few laws since the Kids debuted. Generally cutting hours they're allowed to work, something like that. There's probably groups that still consist of younger girls though.

 

Therefore, yeah, they might have given up on it. Probably because they're trying to go for the "somewhat polished diamonds" route - debuting Kenshuusei over girls from the streets.


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#4 Aeria

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:25 PM

The KSS have been getting younger. 5/8 of the  newest generation are under the age of 13. 

 

But younger children (under 10) are usually not allowed to work a lot of hours. I think C-ute was formed a few months after Mai turned 10, probably so she could work the same hours as the older ones. I also believe that H!P Kids was meant to be a one-shot type of thing. It's 2017 and they haven't done anything with the idea.



#5 taylorniw

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:42 PM

^They were actually announced when she was 9 but she had turned 10 by the time they added Kanna and actually started to kick things in gear.

The vast majority of H!P girls debuted somewhere around the 12-16 mark. S/mileage was not unconventionally young at the time of their formation and aren't really comparable to the kids at all. It's not like they pumped out a ton of kid groups and gave up. Most didn't officially debut until they were old enough that they could have just been added to MM.

Most of the kids were around 12 by the time of an official debut. 5/7ths Berryz was 12+ by the end of 2004. And everyone in C-ute except for Mai was as well by the time they released their first major single. Everything before that was clearly an attempt to help MM appeal to younger kids.

#6 hanawopun

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 12:13 AM

For some reason I thought the Berryz kids were younger than 12 way back then but I guess I'm mixing their group actually forming with seeing them make appearances via H!P events, Morning Musume skits, etc. when they were super young.. Mai Mai was much younger than 10 starting out, but yeah, I guess they were a bit older once they actually started the idol groups.

Many of your answers echoed some of the thoughts I had but I was curious.

If the trend now is for idol groups to peak around 17-20 then perhaps they shouldn't let them graduate so early!  Let them go at it until 28 (?)... I understand the whole 'idol' thing and rules but I wouldn't care if they had a social life lol, I just want more music and videos.


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#7 Aeria

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 12:54 AM

^

Idols are humans. Being an idol is a job. A "social life" doesn't mean having a boyfriend, it means hanging out with friends, family, going out, etc. Most of these girls probably don't have the time for a social life due to work. Some idols want to return to a normal life or pursue a different career. It's normal. I rather have an idol being happy doing what she wants than being miserable being an idol.



#8 miyooooons

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 03:42 AM

I don't think they'll ever do something like that again, especially since now they have the trainee program and so many girls to look after as it is.
But I have noticed that in recent years they haven't really been afraid to debut girls who are 16-18, so I actually think they're shifting in a different direction where they want a majority of the members to be older.
Tsubaki Factory just had their major debut and they have two members over 18. And Kaga Kaede, Ichioka Reina, and Kawamura Ayano are all debuting girls who turn(ed) 18 this year.
I wouldn't be surprised if the H!P graduation age becomes more common in mid-late 20's in the future. It seems they can get more committed girls if they debut them when they're old enough to make big career decisions.


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#9 hanawopun

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 09:58 AM

Somewhat sad... we'll never have anything as adorable as this again.


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#10 sukibeam

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 12:58 PM

I figured younger groups were being phased out due to two reasons:

 

1) (As y'all have already mentioned) The child labor laws prevent true kids from being able to work what essentially amounts to a full-time job, and with them appearing to prefer quick debuts rather than longer indies periods that some companies practice, that is kind of important. Perhaps this wouldn't be a problem if they did slightly longer indies periods for younger groups and allowed them to slowly develop a following / music catalog / touring experience. But what do I know - I'm a geographer.

 

2) There is a pattern in members peacing out before graduating high school, either to focus on said schooling or because bunions (read - just want a normal life again). By waiting to debut girls when they're older (16-18) they are kind of ensuring it's something said girl actually wants and will stick with it, rather than childhood fancy they'll move on from after a few years.



#11 TheAnna18

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 05:44 PM

I think H!P really went in over their heads when they made H!P kids. They managed to pull it off and have some great success, especially when you consider how long most of them stayed in H!P, with almost all of the original H!P kids staying for 10+ years, which is pretty amazing. Even though it was mostly successful, I'm not sure that they got as much out of it financially to justify all of the hard work. Managing a bunch of 12 year old girls must have been ridiculously hard, not to mention the difficulty in getting them to pull off a "professional" level of performance at such a young age without much prior experience. If they're able to pull in the same amount of money without having to put in all of that extra work, like with smileage or the factories, they'd have to be fools to do the H!P kid route again. At least with the kenshuusei, they're able to give the wota that love to see young/growing idols what they want, but do it in an easier to manage way with less financial risk.

I think another reason that shouldn't be ignored, is that the world is changing and for Japan, is nothing like it was when they started H!P. The world is much more connected and there are more eyes on Japan, but those eyes are judging them from our standards of western culture. A lot of people already see idols as a sort of dirty way too take advantage of young girls and make money, can you imagine the outlash if they pluck a bunch of 10 year old girls off the street and have them perform something like Massara Blue Jeans with hip thrusts and all? With English subtitles on their music videos none the less! It's better for their reputation to stick with something a little less contoversial.

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#12 Arche-JoIyO

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 01:43 AM

I'm pretty sure management said something like not wanting to repeat H!P Kids, like, ever again... it seems training them was a "waste of money" for many years, and i guess they just got lucky most of the Kids were really loyal to H!P and stayed for more than 10 years.

 

With H!P removing the free Egg system I think they won't ever try training kids from young age for free again.


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#13 iwabo

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 12:08 PM

I feel like it all comes down to them wanting to have some "high class" image despite not really having the proper staff to train the girls that way. So they rather scout girls who gained experience in other units, or ones that at least are capable of dealing with the methods of current H!P staff. History shows even that doesn't seem to work though...girls leave quite often and generally seem unmotivated / stressed more than anything.

 

Luckily, you can find young units elsewhere and watch them grow. And surprisingly (maybe not so much) they tend to be better than H!P units too in terms of overall performance.


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#14 hanawopun

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 01:02 PM

I wonder if it could also have anything to do with the gamble of the drastic physical appearance change that can take place.  Granted the early teen years are considered the awkward stage of development in general but there is less risk of choosing a 14-16 year old based on their appearance than an 8-10 year old who could easily pork out in a few years or who knows what.  These thoughts may sound cruel but no doubt the model / idol world is a cruel and serious business when it comes to selection.  


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#15 JennyInTokyo

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 09:30 PM

Maybe it's also because the management have realized that education is very important in the eyes of the idols now? In the past a lot of H!P members left high school or didn't really do well for their education? Now a lot of members now are very focused on education and a lot of them have left for their education and going abroad to learn English. Maybe H!P don't want to hire younger girls because once they've made the decision to be an idol it can affect their education. They don't really want to risk that chance? I might be completely wrong but it's just a thought i had.


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#16 taylorniw

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 08:16 PM

iirc, the number of dropouts is actually pretty low.

#17 manalqua

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 08:59 AM

Tsunku has made a personnal audition, so wait & see. Btw I think it will not become a new group like h!P kids because there is already have H!P kenshuusei and the idol on h!p beging sooner than in 2000' :) 



#18 hanawopun

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 11:44 AM

Well this group is pretty young lol


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#19 Siiseli

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 12:43 PM

It's not an established group though, they are trainees based in Hokkaido.



#20 hanawopun

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 07:31 PM

Ok, I thought since they released a CD they'd be considered "established."

 

The direct translation of the group name is as you mentioned, Hello Pro trainee Hokkaido.  I guess you're right, but still... a CD!

 

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