16 replies to this topic

[iwabo]

Due to certain developments in life and my Japanese language skills slowly but steadily improving living in Japan (after traveling there a few times first of course) has come up for consideration again.

 

Especially with the filtered view us idol fans might have a lot of things about Japan might get sugar-coated and we only see the good things. I'm curious to hear what people who traveled there for a long enough time or are even living there now would consider some of the worse aspects of live in Japan. I think sweetbene is living in Japan and stellosphere traveled there a bunch too so those opinions especially would be helpful, but those are the only two I actually know of so everyone else please share your experiences as well. 

 

Please only reply if you have actually been there / live there.

[★pandapple★]

I lived there for a year, and I think there were two main things that would prevent me from wanting to live there long term. First, you will always be seen as a foreigner. Even if you live there for thirty years and become completely fluent in matters of language and culture, you will still be "the foreigner" among acquaintances, neighbours and community. This is fine if you're happy being on the outside of society, but personally it would wear on me after time.

 

Second is work culture. As a disclaimer, I didn't work in a Japanese company, but I learned about work culture from university classes and Japanese friends who were working. The strict hierarchies that you have to maintain in behaviour and language were a bit difficult, coming from my culture, where good, friendly relationships with coworkers (superiors and "underlings") are normal, and language rules aren't as strict.

 

There are other things to consider, like if you plan on raising a family there are certain difficulties to consider. Googling around will get you a lot of negatives from people who became unhappy living in Japan. Basically, it's important to be realistic, and it seems like you are doing the right thing!

[hpnewb]

There are a number of Youtube channels by long term expats in Japan. The longer term people will probably give you a better perspective than people who only stay for a short while and may just be venting because of culture shock. Since you specifically asked about bad/negative things you'll probably run across a lot of these types of posters.

 

Some Youtubers you may want to check out.

 

Myargonauts channel-https://www.youtube....ser/myargonauts

Jason is a former JET/ALT who has posted a ton of info about the JET program. But he stayed/went back to Japan after his time as a JET so his channel isn't just about that. He has another channel dedicated to Sumo since he's a fan of the sport. He's also lived in rural Japan his entire time so he has a different perspective than Tokyo bloggers for example.

 

Hikosaemon-https://www.youtube....user/Hikosaemon

A Newzealander who's married to a Japanese woman and has a child, he's big into the music scene but posts about other things as well.

 

 

Gimmeaflakeman- https://www.youtube....eaflakeman--hadseveral other channels but I'm too lazy to search them atm.

 

This may be a controversial choice because Victor seems to draw a lot of flak but I think he's one of the more realistic Jvloggers about telling it like it is.(also married with a child)

 

Really there are a ton of good life in Japan channels, just look around and get multiple opinions. 

[Moondoggie]

In the long term some people just adjust better than others to living in a foreign country one thing Japan does especially for white people who are used to being a majority or in high numbers almost anywhere in the world is teach you what it's like to be a minority. Around 98.5% of the population is made up of Japanese with the remaining 1.5% of non Japanese mostly made up of other Asian populations Koreans,Filipinos etc. And yeah if you are foreign you will always be seen as foreign and weird though it really depends how you look at this if you see it as a negative or not. Maybe some people have dreams of being part of Japanese society and becoming one of them so they might feel let down to be constantly treated differently. Racism is passive aggressive in Japan just like any form of abuse so you probably won't even notice it if you come from the West where people are much more direct about things. (Just to note before anyone gets all defensive about Japan I'm not saying everyone there is racist nor saying racism doesn't exist everywhere because it does. Japan however is not a multi cultural society so being racist is seen as more acceptable).

Strangely enough many of my personal negative experiences come from dealing with other foreigners in Roppongi and Shinjuku. The aggressive tactics of street touts can be annoying especially considering the amount of live houses in Shinjuku so if you want to see a show you need to run the gauntlet of Africans and Chinese women following you around trying to get you into bars and massage parlours. Apart from that then overly aggressive salary men barging past people they tend to do this annoying zig zag thing you try to escape but they just come right for you. Then at night they fall asleep on your shoulder on the train >.<. This is the one time Japanese people like physical contact.

Being a foreigner it's hard to make real friends in Japan and I mean real ones not people who want a token foreign friend or boyfriend/girlfriend to teach them English and display how international they are like carrying around a bag from the latest foreign store to open. Lots of unwritten rules to learn can be hard for foreigners living there or visiting they don't exactly expect a foreigner to know everything but they won't be happy about you accidentally breaking unwritten rules either.  It's harder to find a place to live not everywhere rents to foreigners and there are absolutely no laws that prevent discrimination based on race,sexuality (Although in some jurisdictions there are some for sexuality  but only apply in those areas),

Oh and the Bureacracy lots and lots and lots of it. In everything. Complete inflexibility over anything and people just accept things as they are. Fakeness which sounds like a funny negative coming from an idol fan but it seems to be the whole of society puts on some sort of front and women are all trained to be as kawaii as possible acting like a 5 year old and putting on some voice. I remember very late at night seeing a couple shacking up in Shinjuku and this girl was trying so hard to maintain this nasally cute voice while falling all over drunk .

Lack of any sort of public seating anywhere including in parks and malls. They still use those old school squat toilets in some places like stations. But now I'm just nitpicking. Still my top negative in Japan involves Africans not leaving me alone when all I want to do is go back to the hotel after watching a gig at a live house.

I think for most people who go to Japan or live out there the positives will outweigh the negatives though you specifically asked for negatives.

[洋hiromi水]

I think this is an interesting thread! 

 

I agree very much with what has been sad so far. I've studied and lived in Kobe for half a year, so I'll share my experiences as well.

 

Yes, you will always be a foreigner. Since the major points about this have already been discussed, I'll tell you about the less important but still annoying everyday encouters. It might not be that bad in Tokyo where there are more foreigners or in Kyoto with lots of tourists, but in Kobe I've been stared at a lot. Most of the people did not do it in a very obvious way, but in a very subtle way on trains or when they passed me on the street. On days when you don't feel too well or when you notice it happening a lot, it can get quite annoying.

 

Next to the staring, you will also notice that, when you enter a restaurant or a shop (especially in less touristy areas), the staff might feel very uncomfortable and might try to not look at you or avoid you. However, when you start talking to them in Japanese, they usually are the nicest people. And then the typical conversation comes up: "Why do you speak Japanese so well?" This sounds very friendly and the people really mean it friendly, and it's not a really bad thing about Japanese people, but when you have this conversation like five times every day for half a year, it gets annoying. I've heard that this conversation even happens with foreigners who have lived in Japan for years and years and speak Japanese fluently. At some point, you're just fed up with explaining yourself to people you don't know.

 

The next thing I'd like to discuss happened due to me being a foreigner and also a girl. I've experienced it a lot that men of all ages came up to me on streets, train stations and in parks and tried to hit on me. Some guys from my university have told me that Japanese men tend to think that foreign women are "easier to get" than Japanese women, so that might explain it. Other people, the so-called "gaijin hunters", will come up to you because they want to know where you from and what you're doing here, or because they want to speak English. This happens a lot so it might get quite annoying. But when you make clear that you have no interest, people usually leave you alone. 

 

Bigger problems would be the work and school system. But since I haven't worked in Japan, I don't know that much more than everyone else here. I can only tell you that even students work like crazy and take night shifts and then sleep during class because they are too exhausted. And one of my foreign friends who spoke Japanese very well (N1 level) had to undertake a whole week of training sessions for a simple part time job at a restaurant. When you work, the kohai-senpai relationship is very important and even if you feel like it slows things down or makes things complicated, it is unacceptable to ignore it. 

 

Also, if you study at a Japanese university, you have to finish your studies in four years (if you stayed abroad in five years), and during the months after graduation everyone gets out to apply for jobs. If you don't get a job right away, it's very hard to get one during the rest of the year, and the longer it takes you the harder it becomes. Because once you've searched for jobs for longer than a year, newly graduated students join in searching jobs, and companies prefer taking them rather than someone who has not been successful for a year. This is information I've gotten from many students of universities all over Japan, so it seems to be the norm. 

 

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the living standards in cities. If you don't want to pay a huge amount of money, you will probably live in a very small place, like a one-room-apartment. I've once visited a Japanese friend at home and she lived in Sannomiya, which is downtown Kobe, with her family. They had two rooms, one was a little bigger and included a kitchen, a sofa, a TV and a dinner table, and the other one was to sleep. They were four people and all of them had to sleep in the same room. They weren't particularly poor though, I've been told this is quite a common thing.

 

I now feel like I want to share all those good experiences as well, because I made a lot more of those. but that is not the point here. Anyways, good luck with your Japanese studies!

[Lurkette]

I personally prefer to call them not negatives but "differences," or in more severe circumstances, "challenges." I feel like it just helps your state of mind when you get culture shock and feel very emotional about these things. I'll address the big ones at the end but first here are some small differences that I found to be more somewhat irritating from time to time.

 

-Clothing is often one-size-fits-all, and even if it's not sometimes the larger sizes are still not that large. This requires very strategic shopping if you don't fit into the standard Japanese shape, or possibly just importing some of your clothes (as I had to do for very specific items, otherwise I just purchased things that were designed to be baggy on smaller Japanese people that fit me just fine). Changing rooms are also just like a shower curtain around a pedestal so I tried to avoid ever trying things on.

 

-Do you like camembert? Because that's the Japanese equivalent of American cheese and it's all you will ever get on anything you order. Whenever I wanted a different cheese, not even a better or finer cheese, just like a cheddar, I had to seek out a specialty cheese shop. 

 

-Despite "variety" being the name of Japan's most beloved TV genre, there isn't a whole lot of variety in Japanese TV in general. Since I was there, they have gotten video streaming services like Netflix and Hulu so you can remedy the boredom that may come from a never-ending feed of talking heads on TV, but it's still something to be aware of.

 

-Stingy indoor climate control. I'm from the US and I'm used to central heating and air that constantly maintains indoor temperature, but that doesn't exist in Japan (neither does good insulation, it seems). They have room-unit air conditioners and they have space heaters, but they're very reluctant to use either of them because of the price of utilities, especially in winter. Stocking up on reusable ice packs and warm roomwear are a must to offset the temperatures.

 

-Food you may be used to eating in your home country is often different in Japan and, in some cases, unpalatable. I had people send me things regularly that I missed since I could not find a comparable Japanese equivalent. 

 

-If you have any dietary restrictions or even strong preferences, you may have trouble being accommodated in that regard and run the risk of being perceived as rude because you refuse to partake in something (just always say you have an allergy, even if you only don't like it, because at least then they won't take it as personally).

 

-In my experience, I found it difficult to make really good foreigner friends. It's not impossible to make Japanese friends, but it's easier to make a connection with people who already share similar cultural experiences and languages as you. Still, that makes the pool of people really small, and I didn't find too many people that really enjoyed being around most of the time.

 

That's all I have off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others, but basically homesickness was more of an issue for me than cultural differences, as I suppose I have the personality type to adjust to living there as a foreigner, but to touch on what others have said:

 

I really liked being the perpetual outsider most of the time. I found it quite liberating, actually. People didn't bother me when I didn't want to be bothered, and I was often given a little more grace in social faux pas than I would have been given otherwise. I also kind of liked feeling like I didn't have to be as invested in politics or social issues because they usually explicitly excluded from dialogue. Those things can get tiring after a while, after all. Now, many people aren't suited to this sort of lifestyle, and you do need a really good friend or two there to share in your outings and life to make the solitude more bearable, but I personally didn't find it as painful as many do.

 

Oh, and yeah, if you're outside of the Tokyo metro area, you're going to get stares. Again, it didn't really bother me. If anyone stared a little too long I just made a weird face back at them, which resulted in either laughter or embarrassment from the offending party, but in either case they recognized their mistake in looking at me a little too much. 

 

Bureaucracy, education, employment... eh. Everyone has to go through it and it's confusing and everyone has strong feelings on it, but whatever. Just do what you're supposed to do, same as anywhere.

 

The main thing to keep in mind is that none of the cultural or social behaviors that foreigners often perceive as negative in Japan exist in a vacuum. They have motivations and reasons for doing the things they do, even if they don't make sense to us. You can make the most of your situation by trying to understand those motivations and, if possible, trying to demonstrate that they might be wrong for believing one thing or another. The staring thing is a good example, showing them that they're being rude even though they're only doing because they almost never see someone who looks like you and they're thinking about who you might be; or when people in stores avoid you because they don't think you understand Japanese and they don't have enough confidence in their English to try to sell something to you, and then you ask them for help and they're 100% on board. It's so important to keep a frame of reference that you are always a guest to them, no matter how long you've been there, and you are receiving their goodwill by being allowed to stay there, which is incredibly humbling. So humbling, in fact, that most people can't handle it. I'd suggest going over on a tourist visa and seeing how well you fit in, how much you like being the outsider, before committing to anything with more permanence, but for what it's worth, I didn't find it particularly difficult to live there when I came in understanding where my "place" was. 

[Moondoggie]

I wonder if there is something in alcoholic drinks I can be allergic to. Not drinking in Japan is extremely difficult sometimes when somebody wants to buy me a drink turning it down for any reason seems to amount to spitting in their face.

[RenaiHunter]

I've watched and read a lot of material regarding living in Japan because I want to go there and I have very realistic expectations. But the main reason I want to go is the low criminal rate and the calm life. So is that true? Do you feel safe living in Japan and walking at night on the streets. Because in my country thats a problem. Also are there really dozens of rats in he cheaper apartments as Ive heard?

[hpnewb]

^^ Just tell them you're on medicine and can't drink alcohol.

[Moondoggie]

I've watched and read a lot of material regarding living in Japan because I want to go there and I have very realistic expectations. But the main reason I want to go is the low criminal rate and the calm life. So is that true? Do you feel safe living in Japan and walking at night on the streets.

I suppose feeling safe depends where you go. Shinjuku  and Roppongi in certain areas at night can feel a bit shady but you are not in any danger unless you follow the touts into establishments you might be scammed or drugged. I've never once felt unsafe in Tokyo walking around at night though even alone in Shinjuku. Most people will completely ignore you even while drunk. You see a lot of people slumped over in the popular drinking areas on weekends and drunk rowdy guys but I don't know how badly that would bother anyone else. There might be more issues for girls I don't really know. There isn't a lot of crime certainly not a lot of violent crime. You are unlikely to be harassed by anyone beyond street touts.

[洋hiromi水]

I've watched and read a lot of material regarding living in Japan because I want to go there and I have very realistic expectations. But the main reason I want to go is the low criminal rate and the calm life. So is that true? Do you feel safe living in Japan and walking at night on the streets. 

I speak for non-Tokyo areas, but yes. I've always felt save walking around outside at night. I've never had any troubles, even in Osaka in the Namba district at midnight, when everyone around me wore business suits and was drunk. I've heard that there are a bit more dangerous areas in big cities like Tokyo and Osaka, but if you avoid those you will be fine.

 

Concerning crimes, things like stealing don't really happen. In restaurants or cafés people put their iphones on the table when they have to leave the table for a moment and don't want anybody else to sit down. Even if the iphone lies there for ten minutes, nobody will take it. My friend once dropped her wallet on the street, which had 3,000 Yen, a 3 month train ticket (with no name or anything on it, so anybody could use it), her VISA card and her Japanese residence card in it. It happened in the morning, and in the evening she went to the police box that was closest to the way she had walked. And there was her wallet, with everything in it. Somebody had picked it up and given it to the police. Not one yen was taken. 

[Moondoggie]

It's pretty much the same on trains people sleep and their bag is right there open with their phone and wallet everything else and nobody will touch it. Pickpockets on public transport are a big issue in many large cities not so much for Japanese cities. But this is getting too positive. What about obasan encounters? Those middle aged women can be pretty vicious lol. Strangely enough you'd think that the youth would be the ones more likely to break rules but I find middle aged ladies do it more like talking loudly on trains or on the phone . They also like to save seats for their friends on trains putting their bags on seats and they barge past everyone to get on and get the seats lol. It's one of two things that really surprised me on Japanese transport the other was small children in groups using the trains to go to school like it's just normal. Early in the morning you can see them waiting around the station for their friends That pretty much sums up how safe Japan feels.

[Pukovnik Krv]

The thing that I'd say is the most difficult to come to terms with is the concept of honne/tatemae. Most people in the West tend to say things as they are. If they're not happy, they say so, though you can alter how politely you say it. In Japan, due to a severe innate dislike of anything that might even possibly cause the slightest bit of conflict, it's very hard to get a Japanese person to say what they actually think. Japanese English speakers and those who have lived abroad tend to have a slightly lower tatemae threshold, but idol fans in particular have a tatemae about 12 inches thick and made of reinforced steel. You can talk to the same group of idol fans for years, enjoy their company, have good conversations and still not have a clue what their job is or what their life outside of idols is like. If you like bonding over your favourite artist/idol over drinks and becoming friends, then you're really not likely to find that in Japan.

 

Oddly, I find the younger people much more fun to talk to. High School and University students still tell it like it is and haven't fallen into the monotonous corporate slave ideology quite yet.

[Flaneganb]

Living in Tokyo for 2 years after constant yearly visit for straight 3 years.
Have to move back to my hometown a year and half ago due to family matters.

Took the risk with less savings, went to learn Japanese language for 3 months. Ended up found a job and get a working visa related with my specialty.
I struggled the first 3 months because of financial, have to control the amount I used daily in-order to survive until I finish my language course but somehow alongway I met a few awesome people related with the industry I worked back home recommended me a few agencies to apply.

 

Found a agencies that willing to take me as trainee assistant for 2 months and on 3rd month got hire full-time. I'm the only Foreigner within the agencies althou I'm "Asian", since most of my colleague and part-time staff don't really speak English.
I have to get used with speaking Japanese 100% (okay, sometimes 1 or 2 words of simple english). Never get used with the working ethic and lifestyle culture because there's too many filter when it comes to formal language to the senior and using informal language to the junior. Japanese language improve tremendously in less than 2 months after became full-time because got force to be like part of them.

Although, am a Asian. Look like typical Japanese but since most of them knows me. They tend to treat me a little bit relax as long I didn't do anything silly during production or meeting. So yeah, no matter you're a Westerners or Non-Japanese Asian. You'll get the different treatment (both good and bad ways) than the local, which for me is a good thing.

Met a few Japanese who fluent in English but they tend to be shy for the first 5-6 meet up because they felt comfortable by speaking Japanese already, usually this kind of person I call them an International Ninja who have an experience living overseas. They know outside culture so they'll treat you like a 'Bros / Sis' wherever you hang out, unlike typical Japanese.. A little bit quiet and limited topic when it comes to random conversation.

 

Being Polite and Being Nice is part of their culture. It takes time for them to open up and speak up as a true friend. Sometimes you'll get lonely no matter how many friends you have because.. like I mentioned previously because of limited topic conversation they willing to talk. It is better to have other foreign mates in Tokyo to have balance healthy lifestyle.

And one thing I realize living in Japan for 2 years is.... Eventually you'll become healthy because of constant walking (taking stairs up and down, switching station and line everyday and 10-12mins walk back home or work place) everyday. I lost 30kgs in 5 months and 3.5 inches of waist and drop 1 size shirt because of that. Although am still eating heavily normally.

 

Safety and Crime rate, compare to where I come from... Just 6 hours plane ride to Tokyo.
It's a different environment.. 100% safe in most place (but beware big wards like Shinjuku, Ikebukuro, Gotanda, Roponggi and Shibuya area). 

Miss that kind of lifestyle, great experience working in Tokyo.
 

[★pandapple★]

^ Funny thing about becoming healthy and losing weight while in Japan- I expected this ("Yeah! I'll eat the traditional breakfast of rice, miso soup and fish, eat lots of seasonal vegetables, and lose weight!") but got the exact opposite. I went there for a year to study and ended up gaining 5-7 kilos. I biked and walked everywhere, but as a 1-year exchange student at Japanese university, there is so much socializing to be done-and that involved a lot of food. I made great friends, and everyone wants to hang out, which in our city meant going to restaurants for curry, ramen or to a tabehoudai/nomihoudai izakaya. We cooked a lot for ourselves as well, but with a big group of friends in a dorm, we always cooked too much and ate too much. That said, I regret nothing, and the food and friends are what I miss the most.

 

This isn't a bad thing about living in Japan, and it was totally my own fault for eating at restaurants so often, but I just wanted to share because it's totally possible to eat unhealthy and gain a ton of weight under the right circumstances in Japan.

[a_chen]

Hello,

 

I can tell you the big problem and to avoid false hopes so you are not disappointed.

 

1. You will always be a foreigner, even if you have child and live there 30 years.Do not expect to ever be Japanese. you might have citizenship, but outside of friends you will be foreigner, forever. Even your hafu child will be "foreigner"

 

2. Do not try and change how Japanese think, do not try to improve how things work. Japanese do not like intrusion or changes.

If you look to what your senpai is doing, do exactly that. Or look for eldest , most respected person and copy them. Copy is not

seen as unoriginal, it is seen as respectful or even wise.

 

3. Maintaining friendships is complex. It is hard to make friends in person to person talk. Join groups or clubs, those people become friends.

 

4. Emotion. Japanese keep emotion to self, and do not ever complain. They understand difficulty or suffering, but will not step in as this is personal responsibility. "Ganbatte" is summary of the situation, work harder to improve your situation. People who suffer and triumph are admired greatly. To step in and help, unwanted is cause loss of face for the person.

 

5. Love is different than western idea of love. First is stability and quality of a match, then love.

 

If you can not fight the Japanese ways that frustrate, and accept them as they are, you will have many friends and happiness.

 

P.S. No marriage to Japanese will usually last, cultural difference is too high. Unless you have abundance of money, then everything will be fine1

[Flaneganb]

^ Funny thing about becoming healthy and losing weight while in Japan- I expected this ("Yeah! I'll eat the traditional breakfast of rice, miso soup and fish, eat lots of seasonal vegetables, and lose weight!") but got the exact opposite. I went there for a year to study and ended up gaining 5-7 kilos. I biked and walked everywhere, but as a 1-year exchange student at Japanese university, there is so much socializing to be done-and that involved a lot of food. I made great friends, and everyone wants to hang out, which in our city meant going to restaurants for curry, ramen or to a tabehoudai/nomihoudai izakaya. We cooked a lot for ourselves as well, but with a big group of friends in a dorm, we always cooked too much and ate too much. That said, I regret nothing, and the food and friends are what I miss the most.

 

This isn't a bad thing about living in Japan, and it was totally my own fault for eating at restaurants so often, but I just wanted to share because it's totally possible to eat unhealthy and gain a ton of weight under the right circumstances in Japan.

I reckon the differences between Exchange student and Workers life is different.

I have a few mates who are university student, they tend to splurge more than those who come and work in Japan.
Most Exchange Student tend to live in a Dorm, majority those who work in japan either live in Share House or live in an Studio Apartment, my case in Studio Apartment.
It's easy to make friend as Exchange Student (got drag to join their Goukon since the age gap is only 3-4 years differences). Working.... Hmmmmm~~~ ま～全然チャオやなかもしれない。wwww