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Do you think idols change their perception on idols as they grow older?


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#1 Kuraudo17

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 09:14 AM

Who among current H!P members probably hate the job as they entered their 20s? In one interview, Maimi says some C-ute members (if not all) choose to stick around because they don't really have other options.

 

Who among the younger members will get sick of it first? Who will genuinely enjoy what they do?

 

Despite her antics, I somehow have high hopes for Sato. She's musically talented, often doesn't give a damn on handshake events, and probably treats the skills she learns from H!P as part of her arsenal. She learned to play the piano and drums, after all.



#2 Juandalyn

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 11:01 AM

If we're talking about idols who hate to be idols I remember the Egg Hashida Mirei, mostly because she was stalked by "fans" (or as she called them, otakus) which she also called "gross".

 

However, I'm not sure if there are too many girls who actually hate to be idols. With °C-ute for example I think the girls want to try other things, but they might not succeed doing them. Especially Mai who has been in the biz since she was 6. I can actually imagine Berryz to have talked about this a few times. Maybe members who graduated/withdrew did so because they didn't want to be idols anymore.

 

On the title, yes, I do think they do. I believe a lot of girls enter auditions because they look up to idols, want to sing and dance and to become famous. Later, many girls become more conscious about their fans who are predominantly male. Some play with this, like Sayumi did (calling her fans "baldies" and stuff), others might find them weird (in a mic rip someone - i think Rika - said that it's embarassing for old men to sing to idol songs).


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#3 LoveRice

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 01:44 AM

I think it really depends on the person's experience.

 

One can really enjoy singing and dancing in  high energy concerts, doing pretty photoshoots and laughing in variety shows. They wouldn't give up that experience for anything.

 

Others might start being aware of what they dislike, maybe it's the old men or not getting enough oppourtunities



#4 Da-manta-ray

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 03:14 AM

I would be surprised if they didn't, considering they're learning, growing and maturing. Idols are still human; it's natural to have different attitudes towards things as you grow up. Of course, having a different perspective isn't always a bad thing.

 

 

I don't know any certain examples of who might have started hating their job. But I think it's pretty normal to think of what might have been, even if you genuinely enjoy what you're doing. 


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#5 ergreenlimes

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 06:55 AM

I would imagine that not many of them have time for school, college, normal friendships, normal relationships, etc. When you're young, you don't think about that type of stuff nearly as much. I'd imagine that as they see peers from their school days and siblings doing all that normal stuff, most would want to do it themselves. I also know that I am the age of the older H!P kids (Early 20s), as are my friends, and almost all of us are itching to establish ourselves as adults - so it could just be that they're facing the feelings most people their age do. Either way, neither really fits into the idol mold: idols can't live a normal life, and they're suspended in an artificial childhood with all the rules and regulations they must follow, so it would be hard for them to establish themselves as an adult while working as an idol.

 

 

In one interview, Maimi says some C-ute members (if not all) choose to stick around because they don't really have other options.

 

I would imagine the lack of other options is true. Unless you're someone like Momoko or Sayumi who have established variety show careers, or have a large fanbase like Airi, it's unlikely you will have a life in the entertainment industry after idolhood. Not necessarily impossible, but the odds aren't likely. That's probably why they'll stay in C-ute, it's a stable job in the entertainment industry, which would be otherwise hard to find.

 

As for careers outside of the industry, or in behind the scenes work, they'd likely need a college degree for a good job. Of the current H!P Members, only Momoko has a college degree. Yuka from Juice=Juice has dropped out. Airi, Kanon, Ayaka, Aika, and Yurina are all currently in college. That means only one C-ute member really has options outside of entertainment as it stands right now: Airi. For the other H!P kids, only Yurina is also in school, and Momoko has a degree right now - I think it's in elementary education. That's not to mention that Momoko is getting into being an idol producer. It would be funny if she became the next Tsunku or Akimoto. She certainly seems smart enough, and has the charisma. But for the other H!P kids, I don't see much they can do other than go to college now with the money they've saved up or to try and make it on variety shows of some sort, so staying with their stable job is probably a good strategy until something lines itself up.


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#6 taylorniw

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 07:48 AM

Eh, Momoko and Sayumi aren't really exceptions to the rule, especially since it's not as if either is some huge nationally renowned variety star (Sayumi's variety appearances pretty much reached their high point years ago). The unfortunate reality is just that with very few outliers, pretty much every idol will peak while still in their group. It's just the way it goes. Most don't have the skill or training to ever be taken seriously, and that idol background will follow them everywhere they go.

 

Anyway, in response to OP, yeah, probably. I certainly don't feel the same way about most things now that I did when I was 12, and I'm sure lots of girls grow up and feel the same way.



#7 Kuraudo17

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 11:56 AM

It's been a while since Airi got decent TV drama or movie gigs, though. Maybe she'll continue to be in demand as a magazine model, and actually attempt to produce music with the help of her college education.



#8 robotgirl

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 03:42 PM

I'm pretty sure idols get bored, annoyed or tired of their job all the time. First and foremost, that's because it's their job… it's work. Especially for the younger girls, they might really miss just getting to goof off and play all the time. 

Another thing is that as human beings we're never quite satisfied? So even after becoming a famous idol and getting really successful at what they do… They may then just think things like "Well, now that I've achieved that, I want to do something completely different." That's just how human beings are. 

I can't say for sure, but I think the reason we see a lot of KSS girls drop out before debut isn't necessarily because they aren't talented but because they get a taste of idol life and realize it's really hard work and isn't worth it (in their eyes) perhaps?

Also, you might think about how some girls go get a college education and some focus on their idol career… If they go to college, they're basically preparing for life outside of being an idol (I assume.) 

That's all just conjecture though, sorry OP. Although I do remember hearing someone talking about idols realizing they lack some real world skills because they've been focusing on being an idol. 


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#9 Nao-kun

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 04:04 PM

That's not to mention that Momoko is getting into being an idol producer. It would be funny if she became the next Tsunku or Akimoto. She certainly seems smart enough, and has the charisma. 

 

Not going to happen unless she spontaneously develops a case of being male, positions with actual influence in idol staff are a more woman free zone than the board of directors of a weapons manufacturer.



#10 ergreenlimes

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 08:49 PM

^

Yeah, I don't think it's likely, but it's becoming a bit more common. You have to remember that these producers are often songwriters or singers themselves who are charismatic or well-branded mouthpieces for the company to use. It's well-known (at least among the Japanese idol fandom, H!O seems to ignore this or not know it) that Tsunku has little to no power over anything but the melody and lyrics of the songs. Otherwise, he's only responsible for announcing the wishes of UFA's management. Hyadain is in a similar position for Dempagumi.Inc and MomoClo. So having influence has nothing to do with it, although songwriting would be good to know. 

 

Being female has less to do with it these days - just look at AKB48's Sashihara Rino - they had her produce a concert, she's produced another member's solo single, and she's had a role in producing the group itself since 2013! Of course, it's probably all a calculated move by the management team, and she's not really doing anything in the way of production, but that's what idol "producers" do: be a mouthpiece.


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#11 Krusha

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 09:10 PM

I've mentioned this bit about Tsunku here on H!O so many times now, for several years. And still people act as if Tsunku is Upfront, and Tsunku is Boss of Everything. It's just wrong. He's not.

 

Regarding Sasshii, HKT48 became a much improved group since she moved there, from AKB48. 

 

Basically she took all her knowledge of idols, and put it into the group. She would often push certain new girls of the group, and be part of the reason why lots of people discovered some of these girls, and also taught them how to step out of the shadows and do well in either events, concerts, MC's, or variety TV etc. The group as a whole changed almost the day after she joined, because a.) She's a senior, and b.) She's not shy, and c.) She sets goals, and tries to achieve them.

 

For a number of years now HKT48 has had the funniest variety shows of all 48 groups on a consistent basis. Sure, the members are interesting, but as it often is with a team or a group, you need direction, you need a vision. Without a strong leader to take you there, it can be very difficult to get a coherent result. Sasshii (and Rabutan) is the senior in the group who knows all about these things, and what she does, works. So her role, however it's defined, is definitely important. 

 

Can Momoko do the same? She is not shy, and she knows what it's like to be an idol, so she has knowledge and experience, and if she gets the chance, I am sure she can do well.



#12 taylorniw

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 09:16 PM

^
Yeah, I don't think it's likely, but it's becoming a bit more common. You have to remember that these producers are often songwriters or singers themselves who are charismatic or well-branded mouthpieces for the company to use. It's well-known (at least among the Japanese idol fandom, H!O seems to ignore this or not know it) that Tsunku has little to no power over anything but the melody and lyrics of the songs. Otherwise, he's only responsible for announcing the wishes of UFA's management. Hyadain is in a similar position for Dempagumi.Inc and MomoClo. So having influence has nothing to do with it, although songwriting would be good to know. 
 
Being female has less to do with it these days - just look at AKB48's Sashihara Rino - they had her produce a concert, she's produced another member's solo single, and she's had a role in producing the group itself since 2013! Of course, it's probably all a calculated move by the management team, and she's not really doing anything in the way of production, but that's what idol "producers" do: be a mouthpiece.


Nao-kun seems to be talking about being an actual producer and not just a cute mouthpiece. In which case, he's not wrong. It's still very much a man's world.

#13 Krusha

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 09:25 PM

It certainly is, and in Japan men are in control of so much. But, it's not impossible to have influence in the system. From what I recall, it was the daughter of UFA president Naoki, who was instrumental in the change of H!P back in the days, such as putting the focus on Morning Musume / Berryz Koubou + C-ute / S/mileage. Then you have Nishiyama Kyoko aka Saruobasan in AKB48 who is responsible for public relations of that group. Furthermore, she's also heavily involved in "regular" managerial issues for the group as a whole, plus she is second in command behind Akimoto when it comes to which girl gets promoted, or recommended for more work and so on. And since Akimoto doesn't pay attention to these things all the time, she does have a lot of "power" so to speak, in that she makes these decisions. And now you also have Shinobu-san as the general manager of all 48 groups. Of course, this is not the same as a music producer where you make the music, but I don't see how that too couldn't be possible for a woman in Japan. 



#14 taylorniw

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 09:56 PM

Yeah, I know. I was just trying to clarify for 2greenlimes a bit, because Momoko and Sashihara aren't producers the way I would think of Akimoto and Tsunku (and Tsunku isn't even a producer the same way that Akimoto is). No one would be happier to see idols, and woman in general, get to take more control than me.

 

Plus, I think Momoko's producer thing is just going to be a gimmick, because they needed a way to keep her in H!P for a few more years that didn't involve having her go solo.

 

Oh, I also forgot I wanted to respond to robotgirl, so if you see this:

 

The Kenshuusei in H!P only come into the office for lessons once a week, and I think the girls that live far away from Tokyo even less so. So for some I think maybe they did get a taste of it and decided it wasn't for them, but I think for a lot of them, if they don't see a debut in their future, it gets to the point where they need to start thinking about if they want to do this or they want to go to school. I don't know how it is in Japan, but I assume that if you don't go to university straight out of high school, it probably gets a lot more difficult to do once you're older.

 

Not jpop, but there's been a lot of controversy over kpop idols getting into really prestigious universities, even though their career already grants them access to all the opportunities that a degree from these places would give them (most major in acting and things like that, and recently there was a BIG kerfluffle because an Apink member got into a university that has an entrance exam that there's no way she passed by just being tutored on set) and because most don't have time to attend regularly in the first place, which I'm sure is the same for jpop idols too. And it's really hard to balance being an idol and going to school, which is why you see a lot of university girls graduating to concentrate on that. Fukuda Kanon has mentioned in her blog that her grades at school are really bad. But her major is sociology, so I get the impression that because she still seems really intent on being an idol that she's only in university maybe because her family expects it of her or something like that.

 

Arama Japan also had an article that was an interview with a foreign girl who was part of an indies idol group, so she met a lot of other idols who were in smaller groups and she said for a lot of them, being an idol is a lot like a side hobby, and many have other jobs on the side and stuff. The girls from Kago's girl group were working part time jobs in addition to promoting with her. This might be a bit less relevant, since pretty much every Kenshuusei is still in school (someone correct me if there's any who aren't), but I'm sure that ties into it as well once they get older. I can't imagine any girl who has debuted within H!P having time to hold down a job, although maybe they're paid well enough, or come from well off enough families, that they don't need to do that.

 

I'm not sure if any of this makes any sense, and I feel like I've gone off course and am just rambling lol



#15 ergreenlimes

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 12:09 AM

@taylorniw

That would make more sense. In my original post, I was talking about the more symbolic idol producers, and I think Nao took me to mean idol producers in the way of management.

 

As for graduating from college, I fully understand why many don't do it. I was floored when I heard Momoko not only went to school, but finished a degree - at that time, she was by far the most busy member of BK with all the variety show appearances. I just think it's important to think about how being too busy to get a degree while being an idol may make it harder for them when they're done being idols, which in turn makes it harder for them to leave the business. But who knows - I bet some of them have enough money saved up to get degrees once they're done being idols.


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#16 taylorniw

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 12:32 AM

Maybe. But don't they get in by examination? That's what I meant by how it's probably really hard to go if you don't do it right after high school. Girls like Captain and Maimi haven't been in school for four or five years now.

#17 Nao-kun

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 01:43 AM

I've mentioned this bit about Tsunku here on H!O so many times now, for several years. And still people act as if Tsunku is Upfront, and Tsunku is Boss of Everything. It's just wrong. He's not.

 

And that is exactly why I treated the mentioning of Tsunky as meaning anyone in staff, apologies if anyone mentioning Tsunky was actually specifically referring to him.



#18 JennyInTokyo

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 07:52 PM

I know some idols love to be idols but the sad reality is that they're going to become "too old" for it eventually which is a sad truth for a lot of girls who want to be idols forever. I always worry for the girls who quit high school or don't want to go to college because they want to pursue being an idol as a full time commitment. Then what happens when they graduate their group? Do they have the luck of popularity and they can continue a great career in the entertainment industry? Or do they have to face the sad reality that they are not famous anymore and have to return to a full life. That's when it becomes difficult because then you have no education to fall back on, or you can try to apply for college or university but it will be a bit harder.


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#19 Crazed Lurker

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 08:40 PM

I've mentioned this bit about Tsunku here on H!O so many times now, for several years. And still people act as if Tsunku is Upfront, and Tsunku is Boss of Everything. It's just wrong. He's not.

 

This information should be a sticky in all forums related to Hello! Project!

 

(I swear, every time somebody starts babbling about Tsunku being the Big Boss Man, I wanna grab through the screen and choke that person. Yes, I have anger issues.)



#20 Krusha

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 08:42 PM

It's hard to become an idol. It's hard to succeed as an idol. And even if you do, the group you're in may not be very popular. If you're in a group that's popular, and you succeed as an idol there, it doesn't mean everybody will like you. There's the hardcore idol fans and the casual fans. Even if you're the most popular idol in the most popular idol group, it doesn't mean that when you graduate, you will have huge success. So many popular idol girls of different groups have graduated trying to have a career in showbiz afterwards, and it's really difficult. Very few manage to get some traction, because most people got into them in the first place due to them being an idol. Now, not being an idol anymore, few idol fans care, and casuals - well, it's difficult to convince them to support you...

 

It's just really hard to succeed. 


Crazed Lurker, 

 

You know... I actually thought about it when I wrote that, recounting all the times I've had to tell people Tsunku is not as powerful as people think (and it doesn't work to compare him with Akimoto, as Akimoto really is as powerful as people think he is).






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