628 replies to this topic

[Recognizer]

Does anybody remember that WadaSaku was the winner (by pro's decision) on that contest thingy in May's Nama Tamago? I wonder if that means something for debut possibility..

[Lurkette]

^ I don't think so; the whole set-up wasn't Nama Tamago, it was designed to test each girl's abilities and they were graded as such. WadaSaku won the judges' vote, but since that didn't give her the same solo opportunity that it gave Tanabe for winning the fan vote and she hasn't had any promotion since then, I doubt it affected her future that much.

 

 

Yeah, I mentioned it in the Asahi thread, but UFP has a really poor track record with soloists. I think, at least within H!P, it's going to be mostly groups from here on out. Mano's career was good as a jump start into acting but other than that she just continued the trend. But at the same time I'm not sure any of the kenshuusei would make good soloists to begin with.

 

I've always felt that the success of a solo act depends more on the artist than the agency. UF got lucky with Matsuura being the last great solo idol, but then they had Mano, who was more of a cult hit. They're not exactly a phenomenal agency to start with, and since solo acts still aren't really on the rise of popularity, I'm not surprised they seem to be ditching the concept across the whole company.

[taylorniw]

I kind of agree. A truly successful soloist needs to be the entire package, and Matsuura definitely was. But I have to wonder if she would have seen the same success with UFP if H!P hadn't been so huge when she debuted, especially since its decline coincided with her's. Not that we'll ever know.

At any rate, even if H!P wanted another soloist, I don't think any of the current kenshuusei are the answer. They all seem more like group idols than solo idols.

[Obsidian]

Yeah, looks like they've just completely knocked the idea on the head now...and I agree I'm not sure if any of the current Kenshuusei have the total package. Soloists can work and they can make a bag of cash Nishino Kana proves that, but the days of it being 'easy' for them seem a long way away now. Plus it seems albums might be a better bet for them to work out now and well H!P...Albums...hmmm

[taylorniw]

I think a lot of the big solo artists are doing really well digitally right now, which is for them is a key area of the market that H!P (and really, most idols in general) aren't big in. It's mostly physical copies for a lot of them which just makes selling stuff much more difficult since digital music is so popular right now. Albums are expensive.

 

There are kenshuusei who I think are ready to debut but there's not a single one who I think would be good on their own. I don't think there's been any potential soloists in a long time.

[Lurkette]

Part of the appeal of physical sales is the media coverage, since Oricon is the most established chart for news organizations and it still refuses to include digital. Non-idols can make names for themselves through other methods of promotion and publicity, but especially nowadays idols need any exposure they can get. Singles are easy to produce and promote and get a decent return for it.

 

Even if I thought there were a KSS who could carry an act by herself, I'm still not sure the market would accommodate for a solo idol. Actually, I'm not even sure I would support any of them as a solo act unless the music were particularly good. The level of interest just isn't there.

[taylorniw]

There's no Oricon chart for digital sales? That's crazy.

[Lurkette]

Not to the best of my knowledge, no. I believe that you have to run through the individual digital retailers to find sales charts for each of them.

[taylorniw]

That actually really surprises me. It just seems a weirdly outdated mindset given they're the number one chart in the country.

[Obsidian]

They won't change until they're forced to by physical sales collapsing like they have most of the other big markets. The Japanese market is very healthy though, last year music sales were actually larger than the US's including both physical and download sales even though 80% of Japan's market is still physical format. I suspect that will continue to change over time but downloading is still very much a minority way to get your music.

[Lurkette]

But how much of that can be attributed to the fact that Oricon doesn't count digital? The only way to chart is to push physical, and the ways to persuade people to buy it over digital are either to load them up with bonuses (AKB, MM, etc.) or limiting digital (Johnny's). The last true million-seller single with no inflation methods was in 2006, I believe, with "Sen no Kaze ni." After that we saw Arashi dominate the charts, but even they couldn't hit a million without bonuses and their music can mostly only be acquired through physical copies. Idols are essentially what's keeping the physical market afloat, since according to Oricon, more popular and more mainstream artists don't sell more than 100k and rarely break 50k. If Oricon had started counting digital after they stopped having million-sellers, would the CD market still be as healthy? I doubt it.

 

To keep it reasonably on topic, when does anyone think a new audition will be happening? MM should be having one soon if they know what's good for them, and S/m's 3rd gen plans seem to be completely shelved. Hopefully they'll just make a new KSS unit soon, but auditions are slightly easier to predict.

[the rose garden]

I know we should take everything that Tsunku says with a grain (or a truckload) of salt, but he did say at the beginning of the year that more units would follow after J=J was formed. I'm pretty confident we'll get a new unit/group in 2014. It should be a unique concept, however, and that's getting more and more difficult in this saturated idol market. H!P already has cute (S/mileage), sexy (C-ute), mature (Berryz), cool (MM) and J=J, well, they're something I can't put my finger on. I suppose it's their unique sound and talented members that makes them a great and solid group.

 

I would really like to see a threesome with high level singing skills, with a sound and concept that goes back to the basics or is a bit more traditional, like J-Idols from the 80's. Something along the lines of Matsuda Seiko, Moritaka Chisato or Okada Yukiko (love her songs), or perhaps even early H!P. I can see Murotan being fit for this. 

 

It would be interesting if they held an audition for a new group, which would consist entirely of new blood, or a mix of new blood and KSS.

 

And sorry for bringing this topic up again, but as much as I would love to see Manakan join MM, she would remind people too much of Riho, and people would bitch complain about her being too similar to Riho and Ayumi, because of her dancing skills. It would be the same as Rikako joining MM, really.

[Lurkette]

I think if they do a vocal unit they might only have a threesome to chose from 

 

I would like to see Manakan in a new unit rather than in MM, but I don't think her having the same skill set as another member would be a problem at this point. Rikako is too similar to Kudo in just about everything, I think, to the point where there's very little separating them as idols, but Manakan really doesn't look that much like Riho and I don't think her being a good dancer (possibly better than either of the two "dance machines" in MM looking at her background) would necessarily hold her back considering dance and EDM are all MM are really promoting. It would be like if Danbara got in and people complained that she was too much like Riho and Sakura because she came from ASH and is good at singing.

[Rhododendron]

I would really like to see a threesome with high level singing skills, with a sound and concept that goes back to the basics or is a bit more traditional, like J-Idols from the 80's. Something along the lines of Matsuda Seiko, Moritaka Chisato or Okada Yukiko (love her songs), or perhaps even early H!P. I can see Murotan being fit for this. 

 

That sounds like a neat idea, but I don't think they have the talent for it. Murota is good, but not super consistent and seems to have trouble singing higher. There's Ruru, but she's a little too young. I think the only way they could have done that is if they'd done it with Sayuki, Karin, and Tomoko. They are/were easily the best KSS singers, and three of the best singers in general. It seems like J=J is basically H!P's strong vocals unit. But I think they might have the talent in the KSS to do a super dancing group. Maybe with Murota, Sasaki, and Manaka? I've been very impressed with their dancing. Are there any other dancers that seem exceptionally good?

[the rose garden]

(possibly better than either of the two "dance machines" in MM looking at her background)

 

In Ayumi's defense (girl on the left):

 

 

MM's choreography/style is not allowing her to make use of her full potential. The same could be said for Riho, really. But I believe Manaka is on equal grounds with them, based on what I've seen from her Peaceful performances.

 

 

I would really like to see a threesome with high level singing skills, with a sound and concept that goes back to the basics or is a bit more traditional, like J-Idols from the 80's. Something along the lines of Matsuda Seiko, Moritaka Chisato or Okada Yukiko (love her songs), or perhaps even early H!P. I can see Murotan being fit for this. 

 

That sounds like a neat idea, but I don't think they have the talent for it. Murota is good, but not super consistent and seems to have trouble singing higher. There's Ruru, but she's a little too young. I think the only way they could have done that is if they'd done it with Sayuki, Karin, and Tomoko. They are/were easily the best KSS singers, and three of the best singers in general. It seems like J=J is basically H!P's strong vocals unit. But I think they might have the talent in the KSS to do a strong dancing unit. Maybe with Murota, Sasaki, and Manaka? I've been very impressed with their dancing. Are there any other dancers that seem exceptionally good?

 

 

Kurumin, in my opinion. Very energetic.

[Obsidian]

For the concept of a new group, maybe they'll actually return to something like what the original concept of Berryz was supposedly going to be. A large group which rotates in members of the Kenshuusei with maybe a hardcore that are a permanent leadership core...so 4 or 5 with another 4 or 5 rotated. I like that idea just for it's flexibility really.

[Lurkette]

It's not that I doubt that talent of Riho or Ayumi (whose video I cannot view, by the way), but Manakan trained under EXILE's dance program and is the only KSS to have appeared at Kohaku that I know of. Not that a resume means anything, but she has a very solid background and I think that that would pose a challenge to the dance-oriented members of MM.

 

I have to wonder about the feasibility of a rotating group. Not that it wouldn't be interesting, but I'm not sure how it could be executed to keep a stable fanbase.

[Rhododendron]

It's not that I doubt that talent of Riho or Ayumi (whose video I cannot view, by the way), but Manakan trained under EXILE's dance program and is the only KSS to have appeared at Kohaku that I know of. Not that a resume means anything, but she has a very solid background and I think that that would pose a challenge to the dance-oriented members of MM.

 

It's also on youku (if that website works for you). 

[Lurkette]

^ It does, thank you. Yeah, Ayumi's strong suit is sharpness, Riho's is looking more natural and fluid, and Manaka's seems to be a combination of both (or at least I like to think so based on what I've seen). She stood out in the Oheso PV, when I could actually see her.

[taylorniw]

It's not that I doubt that talent of Riho or Ayumi (whose video I cannot view, by the way), but Manakan trained under EXILE's dance program and is the only KSS to have appeared at Kohaku that I know of. Not that a resume means anything, but she has a very solid background and I think that that would pose a challenge to the dance-oriented members of MM.

 

I have to wonder about the feasibility of a rotating group. Not that it wouldn't be interesting, but I'm not sure how it could be executed to keep a stable fanbase.

 

Yeah, I could see it causing problems if the rotating members turned out to be better liked than the permanent lineup.