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Japanese chart systems thread


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#21 Hatched Egg

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 09:55 PM

There are a few things to consider when talking about sales:

 

Single sales grew in between 2009 and 2012, although they fell in 2013. This is when AKB started developing their sales model and when other idol acts started emulating it. Idols may have helped drive that growth. If that's the case whenever the current idol boom dies down (and it will) that may cause further declines in the CD single market.

 

Japanese digital sales are a different from digital sales in Western markets. Recochoku doesn't allow cross-platform downloads, so if you want to listen to a song on your iPod and your feature phone, you have to buy it twice. In the past five years smart phones have eclipsed both music players and feature phones. This, as previously mentioned, has resulted in the decline of the Chaku-uta market and a decline in digital sales in general. It should be noted that smart phone purchases are considered PC downloads by the RIAJ.

 

A report on the global music industry projected a 9% revenue decrease for Japan this year. I have a feeling that Frozen becoming such a big phenomenon is going to completely mess with that projection. The Frozen soundtrack may end up saving the Japanese music industry this year.


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#22 Krusha

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 10:18 PM

http://www.japantime...sales-past-u-s/
 

Ritsuhiko Tajima has about 100 CDs by his favorite band, girl group AKB48, many of them copies of the same disc.

The attraction?

The CDs often include tickets to events where he can briefly meet his idols.

I don’t think I’ll ever get tired of them,” the 28-year-old nursing assistant said as he waited in line at the group’s Tokyo theater for a monthly sale of limited-edition photos. “They’re pop stars I can come visit.”

Fans like Tajima helped consumer music revenue in Japan grow 3 percent last year to ¥430 billion, topping the U.S. to become the world’s largest market, according to the Recording Industry Association of Japan.

Music sales here rose for the first time in five years, led by tunes delivered on CDs and other physical media, bucking the trend in developed markets as cheaper downloads gain ground.

Physical media made up 82 percent of Japanese music sales last year, versus 37 percent in the U.S., the recording industry group said.

Much of Japan’s strength can be attributed to acts like AKB48, which boosts sales of its music in physical formats through innovative marketing such as CDs packaged with tickets to the handshake events and ballots that let fans vote online for their favorite singers.


More in the article, which is relevant to the topic.

In other words:

When the 48G's (including Nogizaka46) loses steam, and stops selling, Japanese sales as a whole will fall down hard. Then there's only the Johnny's groups left which sell a lot, and most likely will continue to sell a lot for a long time, solely because male idols have it far easier than female idols and have always had it easier than female idols.
 

I fear that whenever it happens that the 48G's loses their attraction, the "idol age" will die out, simply because it arose as a result of the 48G's popularity, and we will go back to only a few idol groups being given attention instead of a sea of them. And the sales will revert back as well. Since idols are the only ones left in Japan that sells big figures, Japanese music industry will truly be put in a rough spot. 

 

There may be great artists in Japan that has nothing to do with idols, but very few people seemingly care enough about them. At least care to the point where their releases sell in big numbers...



#23 Nao-kun

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 12:44 AM

^

Or to be a bit more blunt:

The success of 48G at selling physical cds is the last hurrah of the physical music market in Japan.



#24 Hatched Egg

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:57 PM

While it is easy to forget this as an H!P fan, singles are not the only part of the music industry. Albums bring in more revenue and more people buy them.


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#25 Nao-kun

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 11:22 PM

^

Currently in Japan the market for physical cds is heavily biased towards singles though, a lot of that is due to idols (especially 48G and Johhnnys due to their massive marketshare). As Krusha already pointed out, the stuff from actual artists sells in very low numbers.

Point I'm trying to make is it takes thousands of artists to make up for the bias towards singles each of the big selling idol units introduce.



#26 Krusha

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 11:45 PM

Remove idols, both male and female, and it doesn't matter whether the discussion is about singles or albums, because the majority of the music sales in Japan comes from male and female idols. We are not in the mid-late 90's or the very early 00's, where artists like GLAY, globe, B'z, Utada Hikaru, Hamasaki Ayumi, ELT, and Kuraki Mai can sell albums in the multiple millions each. Nor do artists like SMAP, Dreams Come True, Mr. Children, or Amuro Namie sell singles in the millions any longer. 

 

It's only idols that can do this, or rather, only the Johnny's and the 48G's. At least for now...

 

So, where are the new B'z? The new Utada Hikaru's? The new ELT's? The new Mr. Children's? They just don't exist. Japan still relies on old heroes, and that might just get a bit stale... The Japanese music industry if we ignore idols - is not very exciting. And I say this knowing there's a ton of great artists and talented artists in Japan. But the vast majority of these artists are not big sellers nor are they very popular (or even known at all). So the mainstream music scene - the scene which results in high sales figures - this music scene is as dull as the yellow pages.

 

Perhaps when the idol peak goes away artists will reappear again, and perhaps something will happen then. Perhaps also sales will go up again, but I doubt that.

 

It's funny that there's those in Japan that issues criticism towards 48G's and idols, but they're forgetting that without them, the Japanese music industry will no longer be a heavyweight. It will be a welterweight, at best. So if they don't like this situation, they need to come up with a solution, and rather quick too. Forget pointing their fingers at piracy, because as said, the idol industry is what actually contributes in high figures to the Japanese music industry, and since dedicated idol fans actually purchases the releases of their favorite idols (due to wanting the releases, due to the incentives such as photos, tickets, and so on) they need to look at something else entirely. 



#27 Hatched Egg

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:18 AM

^

Currently in Japan the market for physical cds is heavily biased towards singles though, a lot of that is due to idols (especially 48G and Johhnnys due to their massive marketshare). 

 

It's not, and it's never been that way. In 2013 there were 60 million single shipments, compared to 128 million album shipments. Album sales are double what single sales are even though people aren't bulk-buying albums. When you take into account that the wholesale prices are higher for albums, it becomes clear that CD albums are the largest source of revenue for the industry.


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#28 Nao-kun

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 12:55 PM

^

what i meant is that the % of singles in relation to total cds is higher than elsewhere.



#29 Danes83

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 07:36 AM

Remove idols, both male and female, and it doesn't matter whether the discussion is about singles or albums, because the majority of the music sales in Japan comes from male and female idols. We are not in the mid-late 90's or the very early 00's, where artists like GLAY, globe, B'z, Utada Hikaru, Hamasaki Ayumi, ELT, and Kuraki Mai can sell albums in the multiple millions each. Nor do artists like SMAP, Dreams Come True, Mr. Children, or Amuro Namie sell singles in the millions any longer. 

 

It's only idols that can do this, or rather, only the Johnny's and the 48G's. At least for now...

 

So, where are the new B'z? The new Utada Hikaru's? The new ELT's? The new Mr. Children's? They just don't exist. Japan still relies on old heroes, and that might just get a bit stale... The Japanese music industry if we ignore idols - is not very exciting. And I say this knowing there's a ton of great artists and talented artists in Japan. But the vast majority of these artists are not big sellers nor are they very popular (or even known at all). So the mainstream music scene - the scene which results in high sales figures - this music scene is as dull as the yellow pages.

 

Perhaps when the idol peak goes away artists will reappear again, and perhaps something will happen then. Perhaps also sales will go up again, but I doubt that.

 

It's funny that there's those in Japan that issues criticism towards 48G's and idols, but they're forgetting that without them, the Japanese music industry will no longer be a heavyweight. It will be a welterweight, at best. So if they don't like this situation, they need to come up with a solution, and rather quick too. Forget pointing their fingers at piracy, because as said, the idol industry is what actually contributes in high figures to the Japanese music industry, and since dedicated idol fans actually purchases the releases of their favorite idols (due to wanting the releases, due to the incentives such as photos, tickets, and so on) they need to look at something else entirely. 

 

That's why i read in some 2chan discussion, that Japan music industry will falldown, not just because of heavily-promoted Idols (male/female), but the "real" musician and/or artist were "Old-timers". Not much newly-potential artist like Utada-Ayumi in late 90s, or legendary bands rose to famous in 90s (MisChil, Spitz, even BUMP rose to famous in late 90s-early 00s).


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#30 Krusha

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 08:12 AM

Yup. It's a big problem.



#31 Nao-kun

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 11:19 AM

^

^

And even if there was someone new who got popular, there is no guarantee it would result in high cd sales, just look at what happened with MomoClo, they managed to sell out some of the biggest venues in the Country, but couldn't even compete with the lower end Johnnys groups on Oricon.

 

Point is, even if there was a new Utada Hikaru or whatever, there is no guarantee that person or group would also get high cd sales.



#32 Hatched Egg

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 03:32 PM

Keep in mind that many top non-idols can still release platinum certified albums, and record labels must be making a profit off of them. But they're obviously making a higher profit on million certified albums (especially if they don't have to use expensive gimmicks to sell them). Nowadays there are people with Perfume/Namie Amuro/Ikimonogakari sales, but not many people with Kumi Koda/Ken Hirai sales when they were at their peak.

 

It's actually not that different from America. Taylor Swift gets 4-6 million albums sales domestically, but most top artists sell around one to two million. Before iTunes and streaming became popular there were far more artists with Taylor Swift level sales.

 

What would really hurt the music industry would be is the government removed price-fixing protection. That could really hurt revenue.


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#33 keaine

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:16 AM

There's news from oricon:

https://www.oricon.j.../20170120_2.pdf

https://www.oricon.j.../2017020604.pdf


End-of-the-year polls are now closed! Results on the links below:

Hello!Online General Election 2018: http://www.hello-onl...-election-2018/

Female Up-Front Acts Poll 2018: http://www.hello-onl...acts-poll-2018/

Hello!Online Top H!P Songs of 2018 Fan Poll: http://www.hello-onl...-2018-fan-poll/

Fan Poll: MV of the Year 2018: http://www.hello-onl...-the-year-2018/


#34 ajma93632

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 08:22 PM

I tried to stay quiet but I need to let it out, and I think if it's not talked now then it'll probably be once again mentioned in the thread for the next MM single in the future. 

 

I can bear many things in life and in this forum but one of the things I can't It's that disscussions here (specifically about the members) get out of this forum to be mentioned in other forums and websites. I don't know if this comes form members or just guests but I find disrespectful that there's people criticizing the people that just have a different opinion and tag them as delusional. And I'm referring to this Oricon VS Billboard thing that has been subject of discussion many times. One thing it's that you express what chart you prefer to consider the most for your things and what's the reason, and it's ok. Another thing is that you express your opinion about the people who prefers certain chart above the other, I personally don't find it ok but it's bearable. But one different thing is that you go tho other sites and start to criticize the people who prefer a chart that is different from the one you consider. If someone have issues over other people people here then he/she should resolve those difference HERE.

 

The people who prefer Billboard over Oricon is delusional because it gives higher number? Maybe yes,  maybe not, but still it's not an excuse to put them as object of disccusion in other sites, it doesn't affect the ones who still prefer Oricon and it's still being considered, so what's the problem? And even with the fact that Billboard counts bulk-buying sales, the same Billboard has the Hot 100 ranking, which gives the most accurate view of what's  trending (which it's the main reason of why I prefer Billboard, besides the fact I dislike Oricon). I mean JSB was above MM like in Oricon so it's not that UP10TION dominated Billboard. And don't take personal these rankings it's not like it personally affects us. Good day to all of you. 


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#35 Lurkette

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Posted 01 May 2020 - 12:32 PM

None of this is new information, necessarily, but the American Billboard has started to write more about jpop and the Japanese charts, and they included an explanation of the Hot 100 with an example of one chart week to help us get a better understanding of how the rankings work. I thought I'd share here as a good reference for people who might not understand the Hot 100 ranking conditions.

The Billboard Japan Hot 100 combines physical and digital sales, radio airplay, Twitter mentions, YouTube and GYAO! video views, Gracenote look-ups, audio streams from Amazon Music Unlimited, Apple Music, AWA, Google Play Music, KKBOX, LINE MUSIC, Rakuten Music, RecMusic provided by Gfk Japan, dHits, Uta Pass and Spotify, plus karaoke data from Daiichikosho and XING (excluded until further notice).

Billboard Japan Hot 100 Top 10 (dated April 20 to 26)
1. [-] 3-2 / HKT48 (172,981 copies / none / none)
2. [1] I LOVE… / Official HIGE DANdism (1,253 copies / 15,028 downloads / 5,856,967 streams)
3. [2] Pretender / Official HIGE DANdism (none / 10,781 downloads / 4,928,280 streams)
4. [4] Gurenge / LiSA (1,032 copies / 15,437 downloads / 3,711,746 streams)
5. [5] Hakujitsu / King Gnu (none / 9,948 downloads / 4,254,640 streams)
6. [-] Hana ni bourei / Yorushika (none / 12,839 downloads / 1,517,051 streams)
7. [9] Shukumei / Official HIGE DANdism (none / 5,465 downloads / 3,181,660 streams)
8. [13] Yoru ni kakeru / YOASOBI (none / 2,841 downloads / 2,851,740 streams)
9. [6] Parabola / Official HIGE DANdism (none / 9,716 downloads / 2,922,940 streams)
10. [11] Yesterday / Official HIGE DANdism (none / 2,452 downloads / 2,953,024 streams)

[ ]: Position last week
( ): Physical sales / downloads / streams (Top 50 only)

[HKT's] single sold 172,981 copies in its first week, taking the top spot, fueled by physical sales (No. 1) while also coming in at No. 12 for look-ups and No. 13 for Twitter mentions on the chart dated April 20 to 26.

While Official HIGE DANdism's songs take up half of the top 10 this week, the band's latest single, "Parabola," drops to No. 9 after peaking at No. 6 last week. Still, the track continues to perform well in a number of metrics, coming in at No. 2 for radio airplay, and No. 7 for streaming and downloads.


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#36 Juandalyn

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Posted 01 May 2020 - 12:43 PM

Thank you, that is indeed very helpful. I didn't know Billboard counted Spotify streams.


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#37 Lurkette

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 04:29 AM

They do, and I know that they have some formulations that they apply to streams to weight them against actual purchases. In the US, at least, they weight paid subscription streams more heavily than ad-supported streams, more than programmed streams (like a Pandora, where you don't choose the next song, vs. Spotify, where you do), and a certain number of streams then equates to a sale (I believe they've settled on 1250 paid streams = 1 sale, 3750 ad-supported streams = 1 sale, but they have tweaked it a lot over the years). Which is all very complicated and ultimately there's no real way to compare streams to sales, but they try. That's why 6 million streams doesn't hold up to 170,000 in CD sales, in this example. 


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