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Dream Morning Musume。 (ドリーム モーニング娘。)


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#2441 ☆RisaReinaSayu☆

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 03:55 PM

^Two of my all time favorite from MM Kaorin and Nacchi have both gone out of their way more than once to mention how unhappy they were at times in MM. As for doing it with the same sense of decorum as Koharu, nope definitely not that blunt or poorly worded. I think Koharu has the super balls for being as blunt as she is though. IMHO it's a bad thing from a professional perspective, but damn the girl knows how to do shock value well. In some circles that blunt nature would carry her very far up the ladder. As for remembering every member more than Koharu yeah it must be just you, I mean you were either living under a rock at the time or on a lengthy cave explorer's expedition; the girl pretty much wrote an entire chapter of MM's legacy herself what with Up Front turning her into their personal wind-up doll to make nice to their connections with. It's just too bad for MM and the haters that unlike for anyone who came after her it actually worked with her.



#2442 megumibex

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 04:07 PM

I hope they could get them all back for at least one performance (for the record, I'd also like a big H!P Kids reunion before c-ute disbands) but there are several members I wouldn't be surprised to see sit this one out

 

Fukuda Asuka - because of the whole bullying thing

Ai Kago - You all know the drama here

Miki Fujimoto - For the record, I think Fujimoto's actions were worse than Koharu's.

Koharu Kusumi - I can see some wota being upset she's been welcomed back but I can also see some of her fans during her Kirarin days being super excited to see her.

Junjun - The visa issues

Linlin - Ditto plus she might be busy with her work in China

Riho Sayashi - I feel like she may be enjoying her time off and maybe not want to come back, especially since her sudden departure makes me think she didn't enjoy her last year or so in the group. I can see her coming back one day since I don't think the wounds are as deep as some other mambers (or maybe they don't exist at all and I'm overthinking it).

Kanon Suzuki - Like Riho it might feel like too soon for her, it would be cute to see her with the other members again.


MM ~ Nonaka Miki, Kaga Kaede ANGERME ~ Sasaki Rikako J=J ~ Takagi Sayuki, Danbara Ruru 

CG ~ Yamaki Risa KF ~ Hamaura Ayano TF~ Kishimoto Yumeno 

KSS - Takase Kurumi, Sato Hikari 

OG ~ Iida Kaori, Suzuki Kanon, Fukuda Kanon, Inaba Manaka, Mitsui Aika, Nakajima Saki

Other Companies ~ Iwase Misaki, Cuca, Nagahama Neru, Maruyama Karin, Khao Kazumaisiri , Suzuka Nakamoto


#2443 Obsidian

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 04:16 PM

Miki is definitely forgiven in the eyes of the agency though, if she performed at the countdown then she'll be there.


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モーニング娘。


#2444 Satur

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 04:20 PM

 I don't know why they still going on with the Asuka's byllying issue. Despite she was unhappy with that lifestyle, I doubt someone as motherly like Yuu-chan bullied her or allows others to do so (look how she protected Aibon short time after). Kaorin and Fukuda went together to run and makes exercises. Yaguchi and Sayaka was almost the same age of her.

 

 I think she just can't manage with that rythm and prefered to quit and live a regular girl life. She don't be back untill she was full adult, and in a music group that don't was so demanding for her.


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#2445 Kurolivier

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 04:28 PM

^Two of my all time favorite from MM Kaorin and Nacchi have both gone out of their way more than once to mention how unhappy they were at times in MM. As for doing it with the same sense of decorum as Koharu, nope definitely not that blunt or poorly worded. I think Koharu has the super balls for being as blunt as she is though. IMHO it's a bad thing from a professional perspective, but damn the girl knows how to do shock value well. In some circles that blunt nature would carry her very far up the ladder. As for remembering every member more than Koharu yeah it must be just you, I mean you were either living under a rock at the time or on a lengthy cave explorer's expedition; the girl pretty much wrote an entire chapter of MM's legacy herself what with Up Front turning her into their personal wind-up doll to make nice to their connections with. It's just too bad for MM and the haters that unlike for anyone who came after her it actually worked with her.

Former member certainly did voice their displeasure, as it is also the case for many alt-idol group members who have more freedom of speech . I said it.

Did any of them pissed on Momusu itself as Koharu have ? This is what i meant and you did answer off topic, but that's not an issue.

You say she have balls, why not, i just think it's part of her "personna", which is certainly a part of why it worked for her career (and not for Momusu's, you are mistaking both)



#2446 ☆RisaReinaSayu☆

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 04:39 PM

Regarding Aibon, I think Up Front keeps her away mainly because they can't be sure of her stability. Of all the members she's done the most to stain the image she had with the general public both while still in H!P and long after leaving H!P.

Regarding Koharu, if she didn't come back for a 20th anniversary reunion I'd expect it to have more to do with a busy schedule than personal feelings. I mean regardless of whether she enjoyed her time in H!P associating with MM again would be free publicity she could take advantage of later for more external work, but if she's already got more work than she can handle she could more than feel comfortable turning it down.

Regarding Mikitty, she seems to be happy to enjoy a life behind closed doors and away from the spotlight but open to reunions and she seemed to clear the air about her prior scandals pretty quickly so it wouldn't be surprising to me if Up Front asked her to come back for a 20th anniversary reunion.

Regarding JunJun/LinLin, getting them back for a reunion seems like a difficult thing to achieve for a whole lot of reasons so if it did happen that'd be a pleasant surprise which would easily put a smile on my face.

Regarding Asuka-san, I don't think she's interested and not because of bullying or anything but because she's been retired for a long time save for a few attempts to break out as a star on a bigger scale than she had with MM. In her mind an MM reunion probably seems counterproductive.

Regarding Riho and Zukki, they seemed to exit on good terms, but both seem to have ambitions that would keep them away from MM this year. Maybe for MM's 25th or 30th anniversaries, we might see them.

Also just adding it because I feel she gets a free pass way too often due to who she is; People are upset with Koharu for using MM as a stepping stone and not being afraid to say it loud and proud, but they never give Goto Maki the same treatment. Goto Maki pretty much gave Up Front a big FU and went to AVEX failed to make it bigger over there than she had in H!P under Up Front (actually didn't make it at all over there if put into perspective, she was a little tiny blip on the radar of a soloist upon shedding her idol roots as best she could and transitioning to proper artist territory), and came crawling back to them.

@Kurolivier - It worked for MM only as long as Koharu was around for her success to benefit them. She was one of their best merchandise sellers and one of the two girls keeping them relevant after the end of the Eclipse Era (alongside Sayumi who had her radio show and poison tongue character when they were not on TV with OGs and the hosts actually talked to the Platinum Era lineup). As for pissing on MM Koharu hasn't really done this. She made clear that she did not audition and join for love of the group, but because she thought it would open doors for her in the entertainment industry. Is that such a crime? Even with how badly she worded herself there's a big jump from stating it was never about MM to her to pissing all over the group and its legacy. If Koharu was badmouthing the current MM or something we'd be able to have a different conversation, but all she did was give an honest admittedly too blunt and poorly worded confession about her own time in MM and what it meant to her.



#2447 Rickee

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 07:16 AM

Some interesting things being said on this thread.
 

how many people do you think remember Ichii Sayaka as much as they remember Kusumi Koharu, or even 1st generation's own Ishiguro Aya and Fukuda Asuka? People remember the hits Ichii, Ishiguro, & Fukuda were part of sure, but the three of them as individuals for their time in the group? No, not even close).


I think your ideas are interesting, RRS, but I gotta disagree with this. I remember Ichii, Ishiguro, and Fukuda much better than Koharu. Those three were all immensely more talented than Koharu. Many people who were MM fans from the very beginning, as I was, still say that Fukuda was the best vocalist MM ever had. (I don't agree but she was among the best.) And the first three generations were chosen mainly for their singing ability. It wasn't until the 4th gen, when Tsunku knew that MM was about to get its own TV show, that he started weighing personality and other factors in deciding who to add to the group. Koharu's only real talent is modelling. And it don't mean to imply that that is not a talent. It is, but its the only one she's got.

Ichii and Ishiguro are also more beautiful that Koharu. I don't deny that she's a beauty, but Koharu has the beauty of someone who was constructed to be a model from a checklist:
"Long legs?" Check!
"Perfect skin?" Check!
"Long neck?" Check!
...
The trouble is that someone like that is boringly beautiful. She may be flawless, but there's nothing special, or memorable, in her beauty. The most beautiful women are those that break from the checklist in some way. They have a characteristic that is officially a "flaw" but it actually works for them and makes more beautiful, and uniquely, memorably beautiful. Think of Nacchi's chubby cheeks, for example, or Yuko's haughty fierceness, or Ishiguro eyebrows and cheek bones. Ichii's face is too wide by conventional standards and, strangely, she usually wears her hair in a way that makes it look even wider, and yet ... it works for her! It's the "flaw" that makes her more beautiful that the flawless Koharu.
 

Regarding Aibon, I think Up Front keeps her away mainly because they can't be sure of her stability.


That's plausible. They've probably forgiven her for shacking up with a middle aged man at a resort when she was in her teens (and certainly for smoking). But she may have mental health issues. And from what I've read about her family background, its no surprise if she does.
 

Of all the members she(Aibon)'s done the most to stain the image she had with the general public both while still in H!P and long after leaving H!P.


Nobody's scandal was greater than Yaguchi's. She cheated on her husband after barely a year of marriage. But after 2 years in exile, Up Front welcomed her back. Which proves that they'll forgive anything, including anything Koharu did.
 

Goto Maki pretty much gave Up Front a big FU and went to AVEX failed to make it bigger over there than she had in H!P under Up Front (actually didn't make it at all over there if put into perspective, she was a little tiny blip on the radar of a soloist upon shedding her idol roots as best she could and transitioning to proper artist territory), and came crawling back to them.

Not sure what you mean by "crawling back". She's just done a few joint appearances with UFW artists, but she's still with Avex.



#2448 ☆RisaReinaSayu☆

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 12:39 PM

^Hi. Why did you turn what I said about Koharu being more remembered than Ichii, Ishiguro, & Fukuda into a beauty contest? I was not talking about their looks but what they did as members. And well, you tell me if this is false or accurate:

Fukuda and Ishiguro are founders of the group who'll forever be remembered for that alone, but beyond that people remember Fukuda's voice and her accusations of bullying towards her fellow 1st gen and the 2nd gen members, and Ishiguro is remembered for being the weak leg of Tanpopo and for exiting MM & H!P circa MM's highest point (the success of Love Machine) and the misinformed tales about her first pregnancy (with a fair chunk of people still thinking she was pregnant before she left MM). Ichii's exit was pretty quick in itself and she wasn't a front girl in MM or the center of the sub unit she was in (Petit Moni), ultimately her trying to break out with Cubic Cross is more remembered than her contributions to MM outside of being a member at the time of some of their greatest hits. Koharu's entire solo career under the guise of Tsukishima Kirari speaks against what you said about her only talent being modeling.

About Yaguchi vs Aibon for biggest scandal. Mari's scandalous nature is easily the more questionable next to Aibon's but even with Mari's marriage and cheating scandal if you look at their overall track record they're both either as bad as each other in terms of damaging their image or Aibon still has the edge precisely because she might not be mentally stable.

About Goto Maki, she's still signed to AVEX as her record label yes, but for everything else she's under Up Front isn't she? Correct me if I'm wrong about that because that was the last I'd read about her. Unless I'm missing something that'd still classify as crawling back to Up Front. Also my bringing up her leaving for AVEX was more about making a point that Koharu wanting to leave for bigger pastures is treated like a huge crime while Goto Maki gave Up Front a big FU and left for AVEX but gets a free pass about it rather than being treated like Koharu.



#2449 Rickee

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 05:50 AM

^Hi. Why did you turn what I said about Koharu being more remembered than Ichii, Ishiguro, & Fukuda into a beauty contest? I was not talking about their looks but what they did as members.


Actually you weren't talking about either. You made an assertion about their relative memorability. I mentioned beauty as part of my explanation for why I think Koharu is less memorable than the other three.
 

Fukuda and Ishiguro are founders of the group who'll forever be remembered for that alone, but beyond that people remember Fukuda's voice and her accusations of bullying towards her fellow 1st gen and the 2nd gen members, and Ishiguro is remembered for being the weak leg of Tanpopo and for exiting MM & H!P circa MM's highest point (the success of Love Machine) and the misinformed tales about her first pregnancy (with a fair chunk of people still thinking she was pregnant before she left MM). Ichii's exit was pretty quick in itself and she wasn't a front girl in MM or the center of the sub unit she was in (Petit Moni), ultimately her trying to break out with Cubic Cross is more remembered than her contributions to MM outside of being a member at the time of some of their greatest hits.


None of these four are going to be remembered "forever". But Fukuda, Ishiguro, and Ichii will be remembered for their singing ability (and their looks) by those of us who saw them.
 

Koharu's entire solo career under the guise of Tsukishima Kirari speaks against what you said about her only talent being modeling.


Her solo career was pretty much a failure and didn't last long. And, artistically, I don't think it was anywhere near as good as Ichii's career with CC. Her recordings, and costumes of the time, seemed aimed at the children's market and/or the lolita market. I think Up Front figured, quite correctly, that looks are all that really matter for those markets.
 

About Yaguchi vs Aibon for biggest scandal. Mari's scandalous nature is easily the more questionable next to Aibon's but even with Mari's marriage and cheating scandal if you look at their overall track record they're both either as bad as each other in terms of damaging their image or Aibon still has the edge precisely because she might not be mentally stable.


Mental illness is not a scandal, just as physical illness isn't a scandal.
 

About Goto Maki, she's still signed to AVEX as her record label yes, but for everything else she's under Up Front isn't she? Correct me if I'm wrong about that because that was the last I'd read about her. Unless I'm missing something that'd still classify as crawling back to Up Front.


She has no formal/legal/contractual relation with Up Front at all and has not since she left it. UF and Avex negotiated reunions because the publicity were beneficial to both companies.
 

Also my bringing up her leaving for AVEX was more about making a point that Koharu wanting to leave for bigger pastures is treated like a huge crime while Goto Maki gave Up Front a big FU and left for AVEX but gets a free pass about it rather than being treated like Koharu.


I understand what your point was in bringing up Maki, but along the way to making that point, you asserted that she was "crawling back" to Up Front and I wanted to rebut that assertion. She's never gone back to them.

 

I think Koharu was hired for her looks. At a time when MM's average age was too old to appeal to the lolita market anymore, she was brought in. She had a cute chipmunk face and a pony tail.

 

BTW, I have no objection to anything Koharu said about MM being a stepping stone. It was not a politically wise thing to say, but it was certainly true, and not just of her.



#2450 Satur

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 10:14 AM

 The noisy not so young girls meeting... ^_^

 

 


 If you speak Spanish and like first times of Hello! Project, you can pay a visit to my blog Yaguchi y Yo (Yaguchi and Me).

 Si entiendes español y te gusta la primera época de Hello! Project, puedes visitar mi blog Yaguchi y Yo.


#2451 KouChisato

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 02:45 PM

This ever of 20th Anniversary but since 6 years after former member Kuduu and Sayumi is dreaming Musume with OG member

#2452 nasro

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 11:05 PM

 

^Hi. Why did you turn what I said about Koharu being more remembered than Ichii, Ishiguro, & Fukuda into a beauty contest? I was not talking about their looks but what they did as members.


Actually you weren't talking about either. You made an assertion about their relative memorability. I mentioned beauty as part of my explanation for why I think Koharu is less memorable than the other three.
 

Fukuda and Ishiguro are founders of the group who'll forever be remembered for that alone, but beyond that people remember Fukuda's voice and her accusations of bullying towards her fellow 1st gen and the 2nd gen members, and Ishiguro is remembered for being the weak leg of Tanpopo and for exiting MM & H!P circa MM's highest point (the success of Love Machine) and the misinformed tales about her first pregnancy (with a fair chunk of people still thinking she was pregnant before she left MM). Ichii's exit was pretty quick in itself and she wasn't a front girl in MM or the center of the sub unit she was in (Petit Moni), ultimately her trying to break out with Cubic Cross is more remembered than her contributions to MM outside of being a member at the time of some of their greatest hits.


None of these four are going to be remembered "forever". But Fukuda, Ishiguro, and Ichii will be remembered for their singing ability (and their looks) by those of us who saw them.
 

Koharu's entire solo career under the guise of Tsukishima Kirari speaks against what you said about her only talent being modeling.


Her solo career was pretty much a failure and didn't last long. And, artistically, I don't think it was anywhere near as good as Ichii's career with CC. Her recordings, and costumes of the time, seemed aimed at the children's market and/or the lolita market. I think Up Front figured, quite correctly, that looks are all that really matter for those markets.
 

About Yaguchi vs Aibon for biggest scandal. Mari's scandalous nature is easily the more questionable next to Aibon's but even with Mari's marriage and cheating scandal if you look at their overall track record they're both either as bad as each other in terms of damaging their image or Aibon still has the edge precisely because she might not be mentally stable.


Mental illness is not a scandal, just as physical illness isn't a scandal.
 

About Goto Maki, she's still signed to AVEX as her record label yes, but for everything else she's under Up Front isn't she? Correct me if I'm wrong about that because that was the last I'd read about her. Unless I'm missing something that'd still classify as crawling back to Up Front.


She has no formal/legal/contractual relation with Up Front at all and has not since she left it. UF and Avex negotiated reunions because the publicity were beneficial to both companies.
 

Also my bringing up her leaving for AVEX was more about making a point that Koharu wanting to leave for bigger pastures is treated like a huge crime while Goto Maki gave Up Front a big FU and left for AVEX but gets a free pass about it rather than being treated like Koharu.


I understand what your point was in bringing up Maki, but along the way to making that point, you asserted that she was "crawling back" to Up Front and I wanted to rebut that assertion. She's never gone back to them.

 

I think Koharu was hired for her looks. At a time when MM's average age was too old to appeal to the lolita market anymore, she was brought in. She had a cute chipmunk face and a pony tail.

 

BTW, I have no objection to anything Koharu said about MM being a stepping stone. It was not a politically wise thing to say, but it was certainly true, and not just of her.

 

LOL Koharu's career was never a failure I remind you that it is the Ace of the group and the center, she sold as well as the group reunited despite the crisis that began in 2005!

In addition, it was one of the most popular in the history of Hello Project Tsunku Had stated. So I think you're like the other fans who raged on Kusumi Because she was successful



#2453 Rickee

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:38 AM

^

I didn't say her whole career was a failure, only her solo career. It lasted only about 2 1/2 years. None of her singles sold more than 80,000. Although the second sold more than the first, every other single sold less than the one before it. The last one didn't even break 15,000 and this was in the era before streaming.

 

(I also don't agree that she was ever "the Ace of the group" and she was rarely the center. In her era, Aichan was almost always the center.)



#2454 Satur

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 08:32 AM

 I think we are arguing  and both parts has right assertions. At last, we choose our favourites because personal issues and that is something others can't change. ^_^


 If you speak Spanish and like first times of Hello! Project, you can pay a visit to my blog Yaguchi y Yo (Yaguchi and Me).

 Si entiendes español y te gusta la primera época de Hello! Project, puedes visitar mi blog Yaguchi y Yo.


#2455 Snipey

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 05:25 PM


Someone uploaded the 2006 Rainbow Seven concert in 1080p60fps goodness. Damn!

#2456 nasro

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:54 PM

^

I didn't say her whole career was a failure, only her solo career. It lasted only about 2 1/2 years. None of her singles sold more than 80,000. Although the second sold more than the first, every other single sold less than the one before it. The last one didn't even break 15,000 and this was in the era before streaming.

 

(I also don't agree that she was ever "the Ace of the group" and she was rarely the center. In her era, Aichan was almost always the center.)

3 years of solo career.
She was the center of the group with takahashi and tanaka.
It was the image of the group
His singles have sold very well even more than Morning musume and all the Hello project from 2005 to 2012 Balalaika 72,709 + 7720 = 80,429 copies Up to One two three who come to dethrone him. The last single was 17.158 copies not 14.000 check your sources before !!!!

But she refused several solo lines she had said in her 17-year book. Out of respect to her elders of the then normal group that she had less than tanaka and Ai-chan at the same time it is not too much to put kusumi too much in front of the leader.



#2457 sasquatch693

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Posted 10 June 2020 - 10:11 PM

just to revive the discussion - my favourite Dream MM song :)

 



#2458 Masakiing_10ki

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Posted 11 June 2020 - 07:17 AM

Dream Morning Musume '20 with Ayappe, Asuka, Sayaka, Gocchin, Nono aibon, Sayashi, duu and harunan would be a dream come true now that's a Dream Momosu hahaha



#2459 Satur

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 04:04 PM

 I would like to see that group ^_^


 If you speak Spanish and like first times of Hello! Project, you can pay a visit to my blog Yaguchi y Yo (Yaguchi and Me).

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