731 replies to this topic

[Krusha]

If you were around when the time of 8th gen audition occured, you'd remember that Japanese fans were in outrage over Tsunku not picking Sumire and/or Kikkawa. At the same time the very same outrage occured with overseas fans.

Yes, some liked Aika, but the larger majority preferred Sumire and/or Kikkawa.

For me, Aika's inclusion is the time when my annoyance at Tsunku and UFA reached the point of no return. So to see a list made by Japanese fans, having Aika at #1 on a "Biggest Mistake" list by UFA isn't surprising at all.

So then, #2 on the list is the inclusion of JJ/LL. And funnily enough, this was the second most annoying thing to come from Tsunku straight after Aika, for me. And this is also something the Japanese fans agrees with. My reasoning was as follows: If Morning Musume is a Japanese idol group, a national idol group at that, why add foreigners (not a Chinese issue - but a non-Japanese issue) - and, furthermore: JJ/LL were added shortly after Aika's addition to MM. That begs the question: Were Sumire and Kikkawa that bad? That he couldn't pick them - but he could pick two Chinese girls instead? Are Japanese girls that bad all of a sudden??

OK - no racist card from me or anything, but really; with not picking Sumire/Kikkawa, and now including JJ/LL, it was enough for me. HM changing to hm@ was the icing on the cake. "Enough UFA... enough...please..."

Of course, today Sumire is signed by big, big agency HoriPro and she's an AKB48 member - and she's very popular. Whereas Kikkawa is in H!P Eggs, doing... what, exactly? Two different career paths... And that was my favorite girl out of the 8th gen audition - the first audition in many years that actually got many people's hopes up due to the participants.

So, yes - the reactions to Aika/JJ/LL addition to MM were rather large. [Look at current member popularity polls: LL and Aika are consistently placed last in these polls.]

In the end though, JJ/LL have atleast had personality. And been interesting, as opposed to 80% of the group. So perhaps that's actually a good decision by Tsunku, because I won't dare to imagine the group today without JJ/LL...

This was #1 and #2 - as for #3 I have no opinion - but if Mano Erina would be as exciting in MM as she is as a solo artist, then good decision, MM would not benefit from her at all.

Rejecting Maeda Yuuka is slightly worse however...

The Miyabi 'scandal' was cute. We got enough images to connect the dots and do some thinking of our own but UFA didn't do anything. Well, perhaps there was no need to anyways. But fans thought theirs about it.

Now, the really juicy moment was the whole Kanna debacle. I guess Kanna had the worst bunion of the century, surpassing 6-8 weeks maximum recovery period and being out and away from C-ute for like... what was it, 6 months? She didn't return, there was just a letter on the H!P homepage, and gone she was.

And we all saw the pics of her with her boyfriend... Why pretend it never happened? They lose respect by pretending it was something else. Say you booted her because of disrespecting company policies, and that as an employee she didn't respect the contract. The end. Atleast it shows honesty, straightforwardness, and professionality - in that you care about what your company stands for. The way Kanna left now, it was like they went "Oh hey she like... got a cold, yeah... so she was gone for half a year, but now she's leaving C-ute ...in order to study, or something. Yeah.. Oh, and nevermind the pics of her with a boyfriend - the #1 idol no-no.... OK thanks for your attention."


At any rate: Apart from these major/minor issues, I need to comment on HM. Having the episodes in the end lack quality, and from there going over to the hm@ format - which was so abysmal that the bad HM episodes seemed gold in comparison, this really was a horrible mistake. It ended with TV Tokyo taking hm@ off the air. Wow! Removed from TV... Congrats... What was the purpose with having a management working on hm@ that had no experience or skill for this task? Because it was no secret; they were all new people.


There are other mistakes I can mention, but the above will suffice (alright, one more thing: C-ute was something I enjoyed a lot, even when I felt MM was breaking apart... But today, UFA has managed to ruin C-ute for me as well.)

PS: Megumi "quit" yes (no graduation), but shortly before she "quit" there was pics on the net and around, of her holding hands with her boyfriend. Do the math...

[AAちゃん]

1. Choose Mitsui Aika at the 8th MM audition.
Not a fan of aika..but i dont see it as a problem..since UFA might feel that aika can draw in different type of fans and more fans..
they should add in Kikkawa too at that time..she is a much better singer then aika, does aika really sound nice during live?nope, not really..she still cant really project her voice out properly compare to Kikkawa who can do so during egg concert..nevermind, i will waiting till aika can sing better during live..^^..but yea, i'm a fans of aika deep voice..it's still rox....so i dont see it as a mistake..

2. Jun-jun and Lin-lin joining Morning Musume.
i'm a chinese too..but adding JJ and LL into MM, i hate it at the first place..since to me, morning musume is a group make up of japanese girls and whats the point adding 2 chinese girls..and if tsunku did actually wanna give them lines, there's no point too..
and china hate japan so much, adding 2 china girls into a Jap group and tries to push to China..and think it will success?it's hard..they should really realise it now from the video comment at a china site..
but however, i'm glad that they are in MM now..they make MM more funnier..which is a good things..but i do hope they can really change the way they talk sometime, to us chinese fans, it's entertaining since chinese entertainment show u can be "rude" sometime..yet to japan audience, they might treat JJ and LL attitude as rude when they leave out the 'san' or just shoot a host etc when on show or "complaint" about lacks of line

5. Promoting Aichan as Mizuhara Kana in Q.E.D. ~Shoumei Shuuryou~
i dont see there's any problem with it..Aichan pull it off well, and her acting wasnt that bad nor very good too..still decent..
but YES, the mistakes is that this show is boring..If not for aichan i wont even bother to watch it..
it the same as Mano show..why cant UFA/H!P choose a BETTER drama for the girls..those few drama is kinda a failure to me..

6. Ignore the Natsuyaki Miyabi kissing scandal ~link~
Well..but too bad, miyabi is the main lead in BK as well as buono, they cant afford to lost her..
it's the same as they wanna hide miki scandal yet miki choose not to hide it..

9. The needless and useless concerts in China, Korea and US.
it's NOT needless and useless..
to me, it's a great move..since you cant just keep them in japan when people dont really care about them anymore..
pushing them to other country is a good move..it's not easy to open a concert in other country..you need to have some recognise there first..

10. Ignore the Kamei Eri kissing pictures ~link~
Source.
nothing really to say about this..since the pic although it does look like kamei..but if UFA deny it..and the guy who say it didnt say anything more..UFA can just ignore it easily..

such as having Goto Maki graduating and the poor platform given to the soloists and the units that given one single and then disappeared.

true..graduating goto when she is the most popular member at that time really is a wrong move..

Also, lets not forget all the scandals in the last 10 years.

yea, scandals and scandals, no matter it's true or fake..it totally kill the girls image easily..that what jap media always been doing to member who is more well known in H!P/UFA
and as if they really protect their artist by deny those news nor speak up for the artist..
they just choose to let it pass themselves no matter what bad news appear..and this really badly hurt the particular girls image even if the new is fake..

@Eeyore:

4. Over-reliance on Tsunku as song-writer.

YES!
they should really try other people songs..
dont rely on tsunku too much..
is like current whole H!P, almost all the songs is written by him..
and the songs, is it good?
not really..it become more and more uninteresting for some songs..
and for ur point 6..i Lol-ed..Doesnt when the start of current MM, many people have been say it's aichan feat morning musume?..i do hope so, YET i dont hope so cause people will start to blame/bash/hate her..same as what happen to airi now..

@Nouciel:

I remember a few years ago some Japanese fans used to say that the biggest mistake made by UFA was letting Takahashi Ai join Mini Moni

although i'm a aichan fans
i do agree..
aichan voice dont suit mini moni imo..
but since they intend to throw in 5th gen member to either group that time, if i'm not wrong, aichan should be more well-like within 5th gen at the point of time..so to take over mari who is popular at that time, they would have to add in a more popular member..
i still feel gakisan is more suitable for mini moni..
but then really, changing and adding 5th gen to either group that time is a wrong move..lol..
doesnt many say adding gakisan and konno into tanpopo is also disaster and kills tanpopo..
poor 5th gen..=x

@Suzukira:

1. havin airi take over SHOCK! (i thought EVERYONE would have that somewhere =/) i know tsunku wants to make her a soloist, but he's doing it in the wrong way!

once i feel that MM only always use 3 lead single since back then is wrong..but C-ute is really getting worse and worse in term of line distribution..
i like airi the most in c-ute..yet it's really unfair to the other 4 girls..
C-ute is just turning into Airi feat 4 dancers..
Just make airi a soloist..she will be doing more better then mano imo..


for me, some of the mistakes

~ Changing hello morning to haromoni which is so boring more of the time..and then stopping haromoni after that..

~ Making Mano the only soloist in H!P..mano is cute, yet she is not really a good singer..they spend and push her so much..yet only she can sing as well as ayaya it will be better..
choose the correct person to push as soloist..someone who can sing and dance well..

~TOO many concert going on per year..And repeating of certain songs TOO MANY times..
wota pockets can really be burn into big holes with tons of release and concerts and goods..
and stop singing the same songs again and again..H!P concert -> Group concert, when they singing back the same songs..it just meh..

~Songs release is getting more and more meh..

~And there's doesnt a need to keep release singles and not improving the songs and promotions..
Compare their promotion with other companies..
UFA/H!P sux much imo..
They totally waste the talent of the girls they have..

[Risa/Misa]

If you were around when the time of 8th gen audition occured, you'd remember that Japanese fans were in outrage over Tsunku not picking Sumire and/or Kikkawa. At the same time the very same outrage occured with overseas fans.

Yes, some liked Aika, but the larger majority preferred Sumire and/or Kikkawa.

For me, Aika's inclusion is the time when my annoyance at Tsunku and UFA reached the point of no return. So to see a list made by Japanese fans, having Aika at #1 on a "Biggest Mistake" list by UFA isn't surprising at all.

I don't see why it has to be Aika as the problem. Is it really that people hate Aika or that in the end they are mad at Tsunku for not adding more than one girl for 8th gen and bringing JunLin in? Honestly I think that if Kikkawa was added as well it wouldn't be this bad.

[dean winchester]

Not really trying to get involved, but just by browsing the thread and seeing all that's being mentioned about scandal and "not being able to lose" members because of their importance... I don't know. I think UFA deals on a case-by-case basis with scandals when it should be the same throughout the board. Not saying Koha's graduation was scandal based, but she was randomly shipped out... Kago obviously screwed up and paid dearly. These are both in spite of the prevalent roles each played in H!P as a whole.

And then there's the rumors about Reina, random scandals from pre-MM for Miki.... Obviously aside from Kago, who has admitted to smoking underage, none of this can be proven... but I really would like to see UFA grow a pair and not handle it on a case by case basis. The "scandals" are bound to increase if girls are seeing this girl and that girl with a boyfriend.

Of course, I agree with people who think the "no boyfriend" rule is stupid (it's very Coyote Ugly, "look available but never be available"), but if you claim that's your schtick, shouldn't you walk the walk as you're talking the talk?

I think UFA's biggest problem was, MM graduation became equivalent with death for many. They could've better promoted Elder Club. Ever see Get Wild! on Utadoki? Someone explain to me why Ayaka, Yossy and Rika never got paired?! Or Ayaka, Yossy, and Mai, which seems blatantly obvious....

Ah, but the possibility of all of this is long gone.

[Krusha]

Risa/Misa,

The problem lies in Tsunku and UFA of course.

But when you have say a handful of girls, where two are huge fan favorites both in Japan and outside of Japan, and you pic the girl whom most dislikes - it really is about the girl. I don't hate her. But she's there, and she wasn't who I wanted to join MM. She isn't attractive (to me). Her personality? Doesn't match. Of course this means to me, Aika doesn't fit as an idol for me - atleast not as an idol I prefer. Maybe others do, but I don't.

To put it like this however: Tsunku adding Aika to MM wasn't the #1 problem - it was not adding Sumire and/or Kikkawa. That's what was annoying as hell. It is a non-issue today really, as I can enjoy Sumire elsewhere, for example.

But Kikkawa could have become so much more than what she is today, and that saddens me. And when I look at where Aika is today in terms of popularity [bottom at polls more or less everywhere], it's a big shrug moment over Tsunku and UFA's abilities in later times...

Their mistakes however are far more problematic than just adding Aika, LinLin and JunJun - it has more to do with entire way of managing their artists, in both production, coaching, and their take on the Japanese market (potentials). That's where it really lacks.

[Arche-JoIyO]

PS: Megumi "quit" yes (no graduation), but shortly before she "quit" there was pics on the net and around, of her holding hands with her boyfriend. Do the math...

I'm pretty sure she quited (without your " "). She seemed to be really angry at the stalker :/ .

[Nouciel]

My interest in MM would have decreased inmensely if Sumire had won the 8th gen auditions. My first impression of her wasn't good. I never wanted her to win. And I still don't have the best impression of her. Looking at her pics, she doesn't make me want to know how her personality is.
And Kikkawa seemed to be nervous, especially in the first stage of the audition. She's come a long way since then, though.

So wow, Tsunku picks the non-fan favourite and...
Well, there are really many kind of fans, I guess. None is better than other, as I've said before.

[oroboras]

From the original post ~ I agree with:
* Kanna's untold graduation reasons and the whole way this was "taken care of". You couldn't have handled it worse, dear UFA.

I'll add:

* Michishige. The worst mistake ever.

* S/mileage. All the effort promoting them could be put elsewhere.

Personal preference, or not, this is what I think.

10 million hits on Sayumi's blog in under a month proves that she is in no way a mistake. I doubt many other members could come close, t.b.h.
she may not be the best singer in the group (putting it mildly) but it's all about image in this game, and she has that in bucketfuls, hence her popularity.

S/mileage are (I think) going to be the next big thing, and I can forsee them outstripping C-ute's sales, within a year (and this is coming from me, a C-ute wota)

Kanna's disasppearance, on the other hand, I am in complete agreement with you there. It really put a cloud over my view of how UFA/H!P deal with things.

just my viewpoint.

I also agree with some others - losing Koharu was a mistake - she really pulled in the crowds (as well as being my favourite).
The OG members & Soloists REALLY need more support - not just Erina Mano, who is getting all the support that all the other Soloists have missed out on.
I'm sure I'll think of more given time!!

[thechampion116]

there's a lot of good stuff but there's a lot of weird stuff as well.

What was wrong with promoting QED? Yes, the ratings were bad in comparison to regular shows BUT looking at the shows on in the same timeslot before and after QED, actually performed worse. In relative terms, QED wasn't so bad considering the shows it replaced and were replaced by.

What UFA did wrong?

Its dependent on what your heading at. If you want to go back, there are tonnes of things. I don't know if I can name 10 but I'll try.

1. OVER EXPOSURE- Yes, this can be bad. I think MM success was great at first but over time, with so many shuffle groups, random pairings and special units really caused too much exposure and people just simply get tired of it.
2. Goto Maki - Her graduating from Morning Musume was way too soon, but I think all of us would have done the same thing. She had the potential to be on her own and bring in money for UFA. Morning Musume really didn't need her in that regards. Of course, her staying would have elongated the stay of other members over time.
3. Goto Maki Leaving - yes, one of your top artists walks out to AVEX.
4. Lack of promotion post- H!P boom. People like Ayaya, Goto and even MM eventually saw slowly declining sales and it was due to a lack of real promotion. We see them no longer appearing regularly on Hey Hey Hey or Music Station, the top two music programs around.
5. Kago Ai scandal and release. Yes, what she did was wrong but in the end a mistake to put her away for a whole year and then her subsequent release. She had talent alongside with Tsuji, the duo didn't sell like crazy but they had characters that could keep H!P in the news and on TV often. may be biased in this opinion because she is my fav member of all time.
6. Not replacing Tsunku - i dont' mean fire him, but to give the girls a chance to work with other people for releases. Bringing in someone else creatively won't be bad at all.
7. Too many bad mistakes in member recruiting - Personally, after 6th gen, the additions were bad or unnecessary. You set yourself up for failure when you start calling kids miracle. Also, the addition of Jun Jun and Lin Lin I don't think were entirely necessary unless UFA had the full intent of getting hugely popular in China.
8. Handling of scandals overall. Yes, they are idols, but everyone is prone to mistakes as well. Yes, its huge analogy, but if SMAP can get away with hit and runs, and walking around nude while being suspended a mere month, there was no need to fire or suspend anyone long term. yes, they are idols, but SMAP are idols as well and one of them is even married. People make mistakes, and all you can do is punish them and help them grow.

Thats all I have so far. A lot of people have listed the Elder Club grad as bad but I think its a good thing. The current lineup needs time to develop and get their names out there. The Elder club already did that and in a way, they were directly inhibiting the growth of the current lineup. I believe in the short run, the new groups will suffer without the help from the elder club, but in the long run it will be a good thing.

[SweetHoney]

* Michishige. The worst mistake ever.

In defence for Sayumi.

Yeah she isn't a great singer like Ai or Reina. But she HAS improved from one lines "Shabondama! Help Me!"
Tsunku must of agreed because look at Naichau Kamo, Shouganai Yume Obitio and Nanchatte Renai. She actually gets to sing and I think she really has come a far.

Second of all. Lets face it Sayumi is pretty cute.
I'm sure a lot of concert goods are sold of hers because of her looks.

Also once Sayu's blog opened look at all the hits she has had.
You can tell she has a large number of fans. And yeah if it isn't IP hits and just visit hits.
Well it proves there are Wota's out there willing to sit at their computer and refresh all day until she blogs correct?

I know I am biased since I am a very loyal Sayu fangirl. So please don't take offence Chudreav

[Glasseyelashes]

i've been seeing these threads lately that bring out the worst in people. what begins as an innocent thing, ends up with people at eachother's throats. so UFA has made more than their fair share of mistakes, there's no reason to go bashing current, and past h!p members. the problem is internal, these girls have nothing to do with it.

[shura-kun]

i remember people complaining a lot about the no boyfriends rule... they ignored this in Miya case, in Kamei case isn't clear if is really her but hey whatever, if is true then they ignored this also... just like they ignored Kanna pics at first because she left the group some time after that.

But ok, the major mistake of UFA imo was graduating members too fast and making them solist, from all of this i guess only Gomaki did good. Also the management still isn't the best. Also the no boyfriends rule did major damage, i bet if they ignored this as much as possible could be better for the group (not for the wotas i bet) but yeah, i just say this as a foreigner, i can't even imagin how japanese market works or how wotas or public in general think about this things.

Also, as much as it hurts to anyone (or not) i think that akb is on vogue right now and h!p is going down and it won't stop, no matter what, h!p will end as S.K.I.

[Glasseyelashes]

^if morning musume is going down, i'm going down with them.

[Muukau]

My personal list:
1. Ai-chan chosen as a Momusu member
2. Keeping Ai-chan for too long in Momusu
3. Kicking Koha out when she's improving
4. Akari haven't major debuted yet ARG
5. C-ute going from 8 members to 5
6. Lack of promotion and horrible photoshop skills
7. Change of plans for Berryz Koubou
8. No consistent 1 on 1 vocal lessons
9. The second generation Aa!
10. The way they handle scandals

Rejecting Yuuka's just...
I don't even wanna talk about that.

Mitsi's not that bad.
She's gonna lead the vocals like Ai-chan.
People just don't know yet.

Hmm...funny.
I thought GoMaki graduated at about right time.
In Ai-chan's case...nevermind. Forget it.

S/mileage is going to be the next big group.
It's obvious that they get the promotions.

Tsunku's my idol and all but...

Spoiler

when is HE going to graduate H!P???

[Nigelkun]

^^ yeah... my sentiments too

[Ian905]

I think I can help everyone understand #9. (The needless and useless concerts in China, Korea and US.)

Look at the classic idol duo Pink Lady; their concerts were sold out, their faces were on every possible merchandise, and their singles always hit #1. They had totally conquered Japan. So what was next? Well, America is the land of the stars. Fame in America pretty much guarantees you fame world wide. So off the two headed to Hollywood where they produced their first English single and even got their own show on NBC. Teen magazines such as Tiger Beat began running articles on them and other at the time famous names promoted them.

Despite all this, their US single "Kiss In The Dark" reached only 37 on the charts plus the show flopped and was canceled after a few weeks. Promotion of them ceased and any interest American audiences had in them disappeared. So what were they to do? Sensing they had no reason to further continue their American voyage they decided to return to their loyal American fans.

The problem? The fans lost interest. When Pink Lady left their spot was quickly snatched up by other idols and the fans had moved on. Even their very loyal fans felt stung that they had been abandoned like that, and poured their devotion on other stars. And with that Pink Lady's career was over.

And that isn't a rare case. Akina Nakamori, Matsuda Seiko, the list goes on and on. An attempt to branch in to America is the leading killer of idol careers.

So while we were busy celebrating our first American Morning Musume concert, the Japanese fans were justifiable concerned and probably annoyed at UFA for this "betrayal" of Japanese fans.

I'm only surprised it wasn't higher on the list.

[Glasseyelashes]

^very interesting. but a concert here, or two, for the fans, should be ok. and they're not completely abandoning their japanese fans, they usually come along as well.

[greah]

My personal list:
1. Ai-chan chosen as a Momusu member
2. Keeping Ai-chan for too long in Momusu

currently she's the only good voice in MM (after Mikki's graduation)

5. C-ute going from 8 members to 5

from 8 to one with 4 dancers

6. Lack of promotion and horrible photoshop skills

amen to that



face it guys - only Tsunku's graduation can save them (and us)

[kanono_chan]

everyone makes mistakes but then the mistakes that UFA are...

1. Choose Mitsui Aika at the 8th MM audition.
2. Jun-jun and Lin-lin joining Morning Musume.
5. Promoting Aichan as Mizuhara Kana in Q.E.D. ~Shoumei Shuuryou~
7. Faking the reason behind Arihara Kanna's graduation.

1. A kinda agree but not fully. I just thought maybe they should of chosen more than 1 girl. Mittsi is cute but so are the other members. her voice is alright but i can see her improving, but i don't think she's as good performing live. i don't know how popular she is so i don't know if she sells enough.

2. i don't agree with that one but i see why that's one of the biggest mistakes. 2 chinese girls being added into Morning Musume which has been known to the whole world as a Japanese girl group. and while i was watching some of Momusu videos on youtube, someone would comment saying something like "who's that cute japanese girl in 1:24?" and then someone replys saying "that's Linlin and she's not Japanese, she's chinese" and then a whole arguement starts.

5. Ai-chan in a drama is a great idea. BUT i personally found that drama not my taste. i was hoping Ai-chan to be in some romantic drama set in a high school etc. but i guess that would be impossible

7. ohh this one made me really unhappy. Why did they do that? when they announced that thing about Kanna's injury i kinda had a feeling they're not gonna bring her back i thought that UFA was really irresponsible there, whether the leave was about Kanna's injury or her scandal, i'm pretty sure all of us know the answer to that.

ohh and i would like to make my own list...
1. graduating Goto Maki too soon
say if she still was in Morning Musume for a few years maybe their sales wouldn't be as bad

2. Graduating Elder Club. To me that's the worst mistake ever! i cried so much when i was watching the graduation concert Graduating them all at once just makes it seem like they're wiping out more than half of the population of the world.and because of that graduation, to me H!P is never the H!P it used to be and never will be again. If they got rid of Momusu (ohhh please no) then i think that's it for H!P.

there's more i wanna add but i have to do homework soon

but no nobody knows about the future. i'm sure UFA didn't expect that the decisions they made had altar the future of their sales and popularity. maybe it's fate?

there's more i wanna mention but i have to do homework soon

no matter what UFA does, as long as there's still Morning Musume and especially Reina, i'll always be a fan

[lonely_cookies]

I say... if you don't like what UFA has done then go be a fan of someone else.